Was Ali the greatest heavyweight of all time?

Which he was.

People like Holyfield and Lewis were always going to out last him.

The young age at which he got started, and the amount that he accomplished early on, would have offset this however.

He already had a resume roughly comparable to somebody like Rocky Marciano when he lost the plot.

My guess is that he would only have needed to hold it together for another five years to join Louis and Ali.

 

Most who have Ali and Louis at the top go on their resumes instead of some hypothetical h2h. And Ali's and Loui's resumes are head and shoulders above anyone else's. There's just hard to get away from that fact.

 

I personally think he would have stumbled on either Holy or Bowe, or perhaps both. Lewis would also be a very hard challenge, even though he was still not the finished product in the early to mid 90's. Prime losses to these guys would blow away much of Tyson's mystique.

 

Holyfield turned before Tyson and was fighting tough 15 rounder in his 12th fight.
Holyield was Tyson's contemporary and outlasted him, despite being more war-torn.

Lewis was of the next crop, he didn't turn pro until 1989, when Tyson and Holyfield were established as the top names.

 

Tyson DID stumble .... on Buster Douglas, not Holyfield, Lewis or Bowe.

The idea that he lost to Douglas because "he didn't have his head screwed on" is just a poor excuse. Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis had all sorts of problems and distractions too. Everyone does, that's life.
Tyson simply wasn't as multi-dimensional or adaptable a fighter. He was great at what he did, but his style was stuck at what it was. Eventually someone big and rangey was going to box his ears off, and Douglas did it. Tyson should be appreciated for what he accomplished, not held up against the unrealistic hype and legend they build up around him.

 

^^^

TRUE, however, the Very Best TYSON, may very well be thee Best Ever HW... but overall I'd say Joe Louis, especially considering what Unforgiven just stated above.

as too Ali, the answer is NO!

 

Ali for me with Louis a close second. Tyson isn't remotely in the ballpark but nor is anyone else. It's Ali and Louis then daylight.

 

I think Tyson had a very, very good chance of beating Joe Louis (brutally and early too) but I’d probably make him an underdog against Ali.

 

Yes, Ali was the greatest. Most prestigious resume and a superlative combination of physical talent, skills, and intangibles (toughness, ring IQ, will to win, and panache).

 

Agree ... between the apparent (his style of movement was best suited for a young, agile fighter and would be hard to maintain as age starts to take its toll) and the less apparent (we didn't know how unstable he'd become; he certainly started as a humble, level-headed young man), he wasn't destined for a long career; I remember seeing a documentary where Bill Cayton said that was essentially the established game plan for Mike - fight, gym, fight, gym, keep him busy and out of trouble and wrap it up early. Still, given a few tweaks, he could have had a solid 10 year run and walked away insanely wealthy and with his well-being intact ...

 

It could certainly happen, but I see very little reason to think it's probable.

 

Even the scenario that you are describing could have played to his advantage.

Holyfield or Bowe would have been a credible conqueror unlike Douglas, and the very fact of them beating a good version of Tyson would have increased their stock.

Then if Tyson regains the title somewhere down the line, or somebody who he had beaten wins the title, his stock goes up.

Also every year that his first defeat is delayed by, starts to tip the statistics of his resume in his favor.

 

I disagree.

When you look at Tyson in the early rounds of the Douglas fight, he is just not the same fighter that he was a few years ago.

I definitely think that he had it in him to beat Douglas, and get past that hurdle.

If Douglas makes him look bad, or takes him to the brink of disaster, then it is just his Louis Conn fight.

The anoraks would criticize him for it, but history would only remember the final result.

 

Well, Holy was his next scheduled fight after Douglas. I think losing the title to him might be worse for his legacy than losing it to Douglas, since he wouldn't be excused so readily. It would be harder to maintain the idea of an unbeatable peak Tyson.

 

Spot on.