The difference between Holyfield and Haye

prime haye would not outbox him, cant hurt him, cant outwork him, cant intimidate him, cant take his punches... where exactly do you see the competitiveness?

 

Ironically a shot to bits Holmes went the distance with a prime Evan. I do agree Haye is the inferior fighter but you're looking at somebody that lost when prime to Michael Moorer. Would prime Haye vs Moorer be too much for Deron?

 

Can't hurt him? He can defo hurt him. Journeyman Bert Cooper hurt him badly. And Evan has to land the punches, Haye is a guy who is super hard to land on when he has two legs.

 

If you want to see what a roidless Holyfield is capable of watch him against Qawi. And that was 15 round fight.
And if you think Haye wasn’t juiced on gear you’re crazy.
And Holmes was an old school ATG skills and heart wise. Only a young, prime Tyson ever made easy work of Holmes and that was after had been off for awhile.

 

Haye might well have been juicing but I give guys the benefit of the doubt if they were never caught.

 

so what you want to do, is take every instance of haye doing something successfully, in order to build a prime haye, then point to every misstep evander took during his supposed prime when putting him together, then see how each made up version would do against the other?

 

That’s a fair and gentlemanly attitude but I also think it’s naive - and I don’t mean that as an insult to you.
I think to be consistent you’d also have to give Holyfield the benefit of the doubt for most of his career then. The “Evan Fields” fiasco came very late in his career and could be justified as an old guy looking to recapture some of his youth and glory. I, however, believe he was doped for almost his entire heavyweight run.

 

I dispelled the notion prime Evan can't be hurt - err, yes he was. Haye had a much shorter career but he was a unified cw and hw champion with a much higher KO ratio. He is fit to be in the same ring as Holyfield and he carries some threat.

 

Holyfield's legacy was stained by it you'll agree, creates question marks over his whole career but who knows.

 

Agreed.

 

Agreed. But like I said, I do personally believe he was doped for most of his heavyweight run. The thing about boxers taking steroids is that I don’t believe they make fighters better, they just make them bigger. They allow fighters to do what they do and be what they are at higher weights without sacrificing something like speed or strength. For example, I believe that Floyd, Manny and Holy all doped. I’m convinced of it. But, they’re great fighters regardless. The steroids allowed them to compete in higher weights and still maintain their reflexes and speed.

 

why would you need dispel anything? nobody has claimed holy couldnt be hurt. holy vs cooper is another thread.
if youre analyzing through you tube and boxrec, then yeah, you probably feel all the no names in the background were all the same level skill at all the different times they fought them. context is everything when looking at actual ability. haye did nothing at heavyweight, where holy is an atg... nothing.

 

Also allowed them to train harder and go on for longer. You see Haye's brittleness and it doesn't suggest roid use. He may well have been using and was out the picture for four years so nobody knows what he was doing but I doubt it. Roid use carries a very heavy stigma in UK sport - ask Linford Christie who is now persona non grata.

 

A guy claimed Haye could not hurt Holyfield and that is bullsh it. As far as Haye doing nothing at hw, well he did as much as Mike Moorer who beat prime Evan. Fact dude.