Top 50 Heavyweights all time from The Ring 1998 Holiday issue.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bonecrusher, May 4, 2018.


  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    In fairness in 1998 Lennox still had more to do.

    That was before his fights with Holyfeild, Grant, Tua, and Tyson. Plus his longevity etc.
     
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Langford seems a touch high, but at that point I don't think there's much between individual placings.
     
  3. The Senator

    The Senator Active Member Full Member

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    Jimmy Bivens seems a bit high too, at least for HW.
     
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Its a good read, full of photos and bio's. The rankings, well Holyfield at #3 looks very bad in 2018.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Mendoza checkout my top 50 list I posted yesterday
     
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  6. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Totally. I Pretty much have every issue of KO magazine as it was always my favorite of the many Boxing Magazinea available when I was growing up. But I also have tons of The Ring magazine as well, this has always been one of my favorite issues of The Ring, so when I found it the other day I just had to post this list because I knew it would be an interesting point for discussion to see how much opinion has changed with 20 years having now past.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  7. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What jumps out?

    Wills above Langford. I agree. Although close and certain disputable.

    Dempsey above Wills. I disagree.

    Tommy Gibbons--A lousy top 50 pick at heavy. At light-heavy, okay. Other than Billy Miske, whom did he really defeat at heavy. Anyway, Harry Greb should have gotten this position if they must put in a 1920's light-heavy. And Mickey Walker also did more at heavyweight.

    Tommy Farr--split with Baer, but Lou Nova not only knocked out Baer twice, but beat Farr. I don't think Nova should make a top 50 list, but he should rank above Farr.

    Jimmy Ellis--I wouldn't put him on this list. Yes, he won a tournament, but the top two heavyweights of the time weren't in it, nor was my pick as the #3 guy at the time, Sonny Liston, either. Liston was going back, but I have my doubts Ellis could have handled the 1967 version of Sonny. Being perhaps the 3rd or 4th best heavyweight at one time, and not at all competitive with Frazier or Ali when in the ring with them, doesn't cut it as a top 50 guy for me.

    Cleveland Williams--Suzie Q's threads on Williams and my own reevaluating of his record have caused me to move him upward, but in my judgment, this placement seems way too high.

    Should be considered--Elmer Ray, Rex Layne, George Godfrey, Ernie Schaaf, Tommy Loughran, Jess Willard, Steve Hamas, Larry Gains, and especially Primo Carnera.
     
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  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Quarry ranked 15 places above Ellis is more of a problem for me.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    If an opponent does well vs a guy the Ring likes ( Say Joe Louis, Foreman, or Marciano ) they will be over rated.

    I agree, ranking Farr highly based on a loss...
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Quarry is generally overrated also. He did much more at heavy than Ellis, though,

    and I don't see much of an argument for Ellis, except of course for the very good one that he edged Quarry when they met.

    Neither was at all competitive when they were in the ring with Ali and Frazier.
     
  11. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Here’s what they say about Jimmy Bivins.

    Started out as a middleweight, but fought as light heavy and heavyweight throughout much of career. Defeated Hall of Famer Charley Burley (W10) in only his 15th pro fight. In 1942 alone, beat heavyweight contenders Bob Pastor (W10), Tami Mauriello (W10), and Lee Savold (W10), as well as reigning light heavyweight champion Gus Lesnevich (W10) in a non title bout, future light heavyweight champion Joey Maxim (W10), and former middleweight champ Billy Soose (W10)... Beat Ezzard Charles (W10) in ‘43 and Archie Moorer (KO6) in ‘45... Began slow slide in ‘47 when both Charles (KO by 4) and Moore (KO by 9) stopped him in rematches. Lost 10 round decision to Joe Louis in ‘51. Still had enough to outpoint Future heavyweight contender Mike DeJohn (W6) in final fight of career... Other top fighters he beat Anton Christoforidis, Lloyd Marshall, Teddy Yarosz, Melio Bettina, Curtis Sheppard, Coley Wallace.

    “Why He’s Rated Where He’s Rated”
    Despite his relatively small size (5’10, 185 pounds tops), was able to more than hold his own with the best Heavyweights of his era... Speedy savvy boxer with a crisp, though not devastating, punch... Even though Louis was champion during his prime, the fact that he was black hindered his hopes for a title shot (only 3 of Louis’ 25 title defenses came against black fighters)


    Once again much like with Cleveland Williams the ring presented its case well enough I guess, but I still personally wouldn’t have Bivins nearly as high.
     
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  12. The Senator

    The Senator Active Member Full Member

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    Appreciate you pulling that, doesn't quite change my mind, but it does a nice job of filling in the why's of the ranking.
     
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  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    They were both distinct second-raters.
    I don't think Quarry or Ellis even earned a top 50 all-time placing.
     
  14. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Tommy Gibbons
    57-4-1 (47) with 43 no-decisions, 1 no-contest.

    Turned pro as a welterweight, gradually adding weight and punching power as the years went by. Battled Hall of Famer Harry Greb four times, losing one decision and fighting three no-decisions.. Won 21 of 25 bouts in 1921 via knockout, bolstering status as one of the top contenders for the heavyweight crown worn by Jack Dempsey. Lost 15 round decision to Dempsey in 1923, using speed and considerable skill to become the only one of “The Manassa Mauler’s” challengers to go the distance until Dempsey lost the title to Gene Tunney two years later. Went undefeated in next 12 bouts, but retired after Tunney scored 12th round knockout in 1925. Other top fighters he beat: Gus Christie, Billy Miske, Chuck Wiggins, Silent Martin, George Chip.

    “ why he’s rated where he’s rated”
    Record is somewhat deceptive because so many bouts fought during the no decision era, when rendering a decision was illegal in many states... received the ” newspaper “ decision in many no decision bouts against such note worthy fighters as Georges Carpentier, George “KO” Brown and Battling Levinsky.

    Tommy Farr
    71-22-11 (23)

    Began as light heavyweight, winning both Welsh and British 175 pound titles. Captured Welsh heavyweight crown in 1936 and British Empire heavyweight title in 1937... outstanding run that included victories over Tommy Loughran (W10). Ben Foord (W15). Max Baer (W12) and Walter Nuesal (KO3) Led to a world title shot against Joe Louis in August 1937. Extended Louis the entire 15 rounds in “the brown bomber’s “ first title defense, giving an excellent account of himself.. retired in 1940, but returned to the ring 10 years later. Regained welsh heavyweight title in 1951. Won 11 of 16 come back fights, but retired for good in 1953 after suffering seventh round knockout to Don Cockell. Other top fighters he beat, Randy Jones, Larry Gaines, Red Burman.

    “Why he’s rated where he’s rated“
    A master craftsman who’s speed, durability, and boxing skills allowed him to overcome relatively small size and lack of a big punch. Wonderful performance against primetime Louis came as a shock to American media and fans, best British heavyweight of the 1930s but never won a fight in the United States.


    Jimmy Ellis
    40-12-1 (24)
    Debuted as middleweight against Arley Seifer (KO3) in 1961. Suffered first defeat to Holly Mims (L10) in 1961. Endured harsh 1964 losing 3 of 4. Jumped to heavyweight in 1965, winning against Joe Blackwood (KO1). Fought exhibitions against exiled former champ Muhammad Ali during 1965. Won WBA elimination tournament with upset victories over Leotis Martin (KO9) and Oscar Bonavena (W12). Won vacant WBA title over Jerry Quarry (W15) in ‘68. Beat former champion Floyd Patterson (W15) with lack luster performance in first title defense. Inactive in 1969. Lost WBA title in 1970 to Joe Frazier (KO by 5) lost in ‘71 to Ali (KO by 12) for vacant NABF HW Title.. winless in five of last six bouts. Retired in 1975 after victory over Carl Baker (KO1) other top fighters he beat: Johnny Persol, George Chuvalo, Tony Doyle.

    “Why he’s rated where he’s rated”
    A crafty boxer with quick hands and sharp jab. Hampered by relatively small size. Entered heavyweight picture during an era saturated with talent. Floored only once as a pro prior to Frazier title fight.. Lacked punching power to stay with Frazier, Ali and Earnie Shavers all of whom knocked him out.


    Once again those are the thoughts from Ring magazine, and once again I’m not sure they’re selling me much on some of these choices. But again it was ‘98 and it’s a fun list to dissect and discuss..
     
  15. ronnyrains

    ronnyrains Active Member Full Member

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    Quarry defeated 9 ranked world contenders at the time and knocked out 5 , 2 of those knockouts were the number one contenders . who else did great against Ali and Frazier? Bonavena? he never knocked out anybody who was ranked at the time!