Tommy Burns as champion. Did he face top ten ranked opponets? How many did he beat?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2018.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes,they are a personal interpretation,a guide if you will,valuable and interesting ,but not definitive.We are talking about over a century ago!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Though I think using someone's else's rankings for this makes it more interesting, else the person doing it will naturally bias them for the result they want, even subconsciously. Not definitive, but a good place to start.
     
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    England's Iron Hauge in 1907 would have been a good title defense in hindsight, and I would not rule out an upset.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Jeffries correctly said that Burns is a blow-up middleweight, but he was fair to Burns as a referee. Burns, in turn, held nothing against Jeffries, calling him the best of all times.

    Burns treated the heavyweight title like a circus act, traveling the world, facing easier regional men, and skipping out on the top-ranked ones. Then he cashed out vs. Jack Johnson.

    IMO, Burns is worst regarding facing top talent as champion, even over Jack Johnson though it could be argued that Johnson's top 3-4 were much more deserving of title shots.

    Johnson didn't think much of the 5'7" 168 pound Burns either, calling him the easiest man he ever fought.

    Once this thread runs its course, I'll tally up all champion from 1899-1923 with ratings for top competition defeated in title bouts.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson said Burns gave him a harder fight than Jeffries !
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It's HAGUE! Iron Hague didn't even win the British title until 1909.In1907 Burns would have been too fast, and known too much for the crude untrained swinger.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Johnson changes his story so often its hard to know the truth. Film shows Johnson had an easier time with Tommy Burns. Vs Jeffries, Johnson respected him early, often clinching. Vs Burns, he just tees off.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Considering the quality of opposition Burns fought for the title Hague would have been a match for him in 1907 or early 1908. Hague could punch. The guys Burns fought, really could not punch hard enough to worry him.

    Any way you slice it, Burns only beat one tp ten ranked opponent in all of his title defenses. That's it.
     
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  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You started with the question which challengers he defended against and then only listed the challengers he defeated.

    If you want to answer your own question you should add Johnson to the list. He did after all defend (which was the operative word) his title against him, albeit unsuccesfully.

    If we look solely at succesful defenses, Burns doesn't look very good. But that isn't really controversial.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Its a thread on successful title defenses, with an examination of how many ranked men were beaten. In this case Tommy Burns has only one title defense win over a ranked opponent.
     
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ok. Then you should perhaps change your thread title, which now reads.: "Tommy Burns as champion. Did he face top ten ranked opponets?"

    EDIT: I see that you have. Alright.

    But, yeah, it surely wasn't one of the greater reigns in terms of succesful defenses.
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think they are good, but who would argue that any of the men Burns gave title shots that were not listed belonged in the top ten when he fought them?
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't know but I'm guessing a couple of them could be interchangeable with some of those in the lower top 10s.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You made a statement which is untrue, I corrected it and you then say "Johnson said a lot of things its hard to know when he was telling the truth."Do you understand the absurdity of this? I have direct quotes from Johnson in which he says Burns gave him a harder fight than Jeffries .Pollack has included them in his Johnson biography.

    You can't just cherry pick which suits your agenda!
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Johnson said Burns is the easiest man I ever fought. That is true!

    If he revised that later, that does not make what I said false. You, sir, can't read. Johnson also said his jaw was never so sore vs. Ketchel, and he dived vs. Willard.

    His integrity is not the best, and we both know that. If you only had a point for once things would be different. But all you do is quote books.

    Still waiting for you to produce the 1,000 years comment in print.

    But the point of this thread is not what Johnson said, rather who Burns successfully defended his title against.