Greater fighter: Jeffries or Marciano?

Marciano for me. Jeffries held a substantial size advantage on most of his opponents... I also feel boxing technique came a long way from 1900 to 1950..Marciano just fought and beat better skilled boxers. The old men Marciano beat Charles Walcott and Moore, were better than the old men Jeffries beat fitzsimmons and Corbett in my opinion.

Jeffries did great for his era though and actually beat some good black fighters...wish he had fought Johnson in 05 though. I don’t hold it too much against him. Marciano should have fought Clarence Henry in 51-52 or Nino Valdes 54-55...

 

First I want to go on the record saying Marciano Nor his manager Weill ducked either Henry or Valdes. But both these fights could and should have happened.

Henry was a force in 51-53, sensational performances against undefeated bob baker and satterfield. Henry was a huge puncher with that left hook! Crawled up to number 3 in the rankings in 51, would have been a great pre title fight for Marciano. The Ring ranked Henry third in 1951, fifth in 1952, and seventh in 1953.

In early 1952, Henry’s management offered Marciano 35,000 guaranteed to fight him for the # 2 ranking and a title shot against Walcott. Weill balked, and chose shopworn Lee Savold instead. It didn’t help Henry that his manager was Blinky Palermo, a super shady dude.

Russell Sullivan writes in Rocky Marciano that manager Al Weill “didn’t want to place Marciano’s imminent title shot in jeopardy by sending him against a young, dangerous fighter such as Clarence Henry”

After Henry beat baker again in 53, he once again began being talked about as a serious option for marcianos next title defense in 1954...but little did they know Henry was going blind and dropped his next fight to the uninspiring Jimmy Slade and that kissed his title shot good bye

Henry with his height, long arms, aggressive style, inside fighting ability, toughness, killer left hook would have been a very interesting opponent for Marciano in place of savold. A style Marciano was not used to facing. I fancy Marciano in a short thriller

 

I find these two hard to pick between. I think I lean to Jeffries.

 

They are comparable.

You can argue it either way.

 

Marciano. Both had old timers as their top pelts but Marciano beat better old timers. He also had nary a fear of facing fighters of colour.

 

Valdes was number 1 ranked...in November 53 he first achieved it after a huge win over Ezzard Charles and destruction of euro champ Heinz Neuhaus. He briefly lost his number 1 ranking for a few months in 1954 after he received a gift hometown decision over Archie McBride and the RING was more impressed with Charles blowout of satterfield. Valdes also refused a Charles rematch offer by the IBC. However, Valdes regained his number 1 ranking in July 1954 after Charles lost to Marciano and Nino blew out hurricane Jackson in 2 rounds. Valdes kept that number 1 ranking all the way through next year until May of 1955 when he lost to Archie Moore in a final title eliminator.

Here’s the truth. Weill did plan to fight Valdes. His plan according to many newspaper articles was to fight both n1 Valdes and n2 cockell in 1955...cockell in San Francisco and then fight Valdes in Miami where the venue can draw a huge Latino crowd. Moore wasn’t even in the picture. Weill chose cockell first because he wanted to test marcianos nose against a weak hitting fat boy. Moore then began campaigning publicly for a shot at marcianos crown, and he put so much pressure on Weill that the IBC agreed to a final title eliminator between Moore and Valdes. So Valdes got the shaft having to beat the great Archie Moore to get his title shot. Gave Moore all he could handle. Fight came down to the wire.

Personally, I feel what Weill should have done was after the the cockell massacre, their should have been no eliminator and Marciano should have fought Valdes in Miami in sept 1955 then made his final 50th career fight against Archie Moore sometime in late 55 /early 56.

Valdes definitely earned his shot. 3 of marcianos title defenses Charles 2x, cockell went to men Valdes beat.

I’ve typed up a long explanation before of how a fight between Marciano valdes would go. The short version is Valdes loved to brawl and would have played right into marcianos game. Marciano would have broke Valdes down and stopped him by he 9th

Like Henry, Valdes had height, reach, and a lot of punching power. And he was young. Would have been a different type of opponent than one Marciano was used to facing

 

Agreed, The old timers Marciano beat were better

Did Jeffries have fear of facing black men? He knocked out hank griffin, whom beat jack Johnson. He also dominated bob Armstrong, who beat Denver ed Martin.

He didn’t face Johnson in 1905.... but Johnson lost a terrible fight to the unimpressive Marvin Hart.

 

In Jeffries defence he did hold a win over arguably the best p4p boxer the world had seen up until that point in Fitzsimmons, not too dissimilar to Marciano's win over Charles. Marciano quite literally cleaned the division out though and sadly Jeffries will always be scared by Johnson and even if we ignore their actual fight, I still have to be consistent and hold it against him in the same way I hold Dempsey in a lesser regard for not fighting Wills.

 

Compelling argument Suzie! Sadly Valdez didn't go on to reach the heights that Johnson did though. Hind sight is a bit of a beatch, because you are right, Valdez probably should have got a crack at Marciano and would have been a very threatening opponent to Marciano's crown

 

Yeah agreed. On the record, I do not think marcianos management ducked Valdes. You’re right he didn’t go on to achieve much, although he did achieve enough to put a scare into cus d amato not wanting Patterson to fight Valdes.

I think Weill was very protective of Marciano early in his career...but after Marciano knocked out Walcott for the title, I think Weill realized he had something special in Marciano and was willing to take on all comers at that point as long as the money was right


As for Marciano, one of the most fearless athletes in history. Rocky would have fought a grizzly bear

 

Corbett nearly beat Jeffries the first time. I understand the need for a rematch

Monroe was a soft defense, but I believe it was a tuneup for jack Johnson. But then Johnson lost a title eliminator to hart?

Jeffries wasn’t about to face hart..no public demand. He would have smashed hart


I do think Jeffries could have snuck an extra fight in 1903 vs Denver ed Martin