Was Ali the greatest heavyweight of all time?

And me.

 

What unanswered questions was there about Dempsey? What you saw was what you got. Apart from how he would have done against Wills, what other questions was there about Dempsey and his boxing?

 

You just nailed it. How would he have done against his #1 contender. Some feel he should have defended against Greb as well. In a pure boxing sense his title reign wasn' t on par with his talent. I understand it, he made a ton of $ but he didn't fight that often as champ

 

Even if he had lost to Wills, he would still have had that spectacular rampage through the division.

You could probably salvage about 75% of what he accomplished.

 

Perhaps my view is shaped by Ray Arcel who at the time was a young man learning as a trainer. He was also friends with Dempsey. He believed Dempsey could have probably should have been the greatest heavyweight of all time. He had origi ally saw Dempsey fight all the way back in 1916.

 

I liked this Toho movie, and it was a classic back in the day. Guess they are remaking it in 2020 to fit into this new monarch universe featuring all the giant monsters of the past... Kong, Godzilla, Mothra & King Ghidorah... we shall see.....

 

As for the thread, not sure how it could be anybody but Ali

 

If Buster Douglas took "Prime Tyson" in deep water then what do you think Holyfield does, lol

 

IDK remember Bert Cooper?
Buster Douglas was a tough customer at least on that night. Holyfield didn't face the same guy Tyson did. At his best Buster is s handful

 

I can't think of any HW that could beat him more than once in three. Ali was quick, smart, talented and very tough. We seldom think of his toughness but he was very durable and courageous. He had lots of confidence.

 

ali was great but not a great puncher, threw a lot but no body shots, and a slap of a left hook

Louis was the more complete fighter but without the chin. an agressive Tyson in his prime stops him for sure

 

I've always stood by my views that comparative to their eras, Louis is no.1 and I don't think I could ever be convinced otherwise. It's not until you start bringing in H2H and strength of eras into play that the Ali leap frogs Louis. The main difference for me is that Louis never lost the title until his retirement and Ali losing to Frazier made room for himself and Foreman to be made into upper echelon type fighters. Not that Frazier and Foreman weren't great fighters, but I give very little credit to Ali for beating Frazier who clearly wasn't the same fighter after the FOTC, although that is perhaps a tad unfair to Ali and also exposes my slight bias towards Louis.

 

It does.

Name me any fighter in any division that was out of the sport for 3,5 years and did what Ali did in the 70's. Any. Any that come even close.

His prime was robbed from him and he still went 3-1 against Frazier and Foreman plus beat more contenders than most frequently top ranked HWs did in their whole career. When has that ever been done before or since, in any division?

 

On the other hand, you have Louis, who was 4-1 over lineal champions in less than 3 years of being a pro, then avenged that loss with a first round knockout a year later, lost 2.5 years of his career to a war, had a club called 'bum of the month' because he literally beat every contender in his era, lost 2 and a half years of his career, avenged his only disputed decision in an immediate rematch against a future lineal champion and retired at 58-1

I guess I'm just a bit sour that Joe Louis isn't worshipped today in the same way Ali is. I truly believe that's down to Ali coming along in a time where TV was far more common place and Ali's legacy gains cadence based on what he achieved outside of the ring as well as inside of it. IDK maybe I'm just too young to understand?

 

Joe Louis made the title what it became. He made it. The fighter makes the title. He set the bar really high. He was basically everything a champion should be. Only 25 defenses over 12 years with a pesky war going on. He fought everybody. He beat everyody and he did it with class.