Lineal Rankings System

Except he wasn’t, not even close


Since when does victories over a washed up lastarza, unrated Matthews rank higher than Valdes wins over RING and NBA number 1 Ezzard Charles , RING and NBA number 4 Jackson, and RING number 6 Neuhaus?

 

No offense, but your rankings are laughable.


Clearly you did not take any consideration into NBA or RING rankings when cockell fought these fighters


Farr? About 17 years past his prime
Matthews? Unrated every time he fought cockell
Lastarza? Had slipped considerably in the rankings and fought cokkell with permanent physical damage to his arms from the Marciano fight..not to mention he wasn’t a really good fighter, rocky Jones had to be put on the hand cuffs so he wouldn’t embarrass lastarza a second time!

How the hell, in what world do these wins equate cockell such a high ranking?

Does it take into consideration his one sided knockout loss to Jimmy Slade, the only live heavyweight he ever faced prior to Marciano?

Valdes easily dispatched 3 fighters ranked in the top FIVE in the world by both ring and nba... Charles Jackson and Neuhaus...then in 55 dispatched cockell easily in 3.

But apparently you make up your own formula.


And your cockell Valdes fight excuses are laughable. Valdes knocked cockell down in the first, dominated him, cut his eye up from a hard left hand....Valdes steamrolled him.


And baker and Henry not in your top 15? Utterly ridiculous. These two were top level fighters RING and NBA top 5 fighters 1951-1953..baker top 5 through 1956....

 

"Matthews . . . unrated every time he fought Co-kell."

No Matthews was rated #8 at heavyweight when he fought Co-kell in 1953. He was still rated in the top ten after the fight. I have that issue of The Ring. Here are the ratings as of August 14, 1953

Champion-----Rocky Marciano
1-----Roland LaStarza
2-----Ezzard Charles
3-----Dan Bucceroni
4-----Nino Valdes
5-----Tommy Harrison
6-----Bob Satterfield
7-----Heinz Neuhaus
8-----Don Co-kell
9-----Earl Walls
10----Harry Matthews

This was the month that Valdes defeated Charles. In his review of the Co-kell-Matthews fight, Nat Fleischer mentioned Charles, LaStarza, and Moore as the three top heavyweight contenders, with Don C not being in the same class. Fleischer might have written this before the Charles-Valdes fight.

"Rocky Jones had to put on the cuffs"

Proof?

Seems to have eluded everyone back then. This issue of The Ring had quite a bit of commentary on LaStarza.

Al Buck--

"LaStarza is capable of rising to an occasion."

"Will LaStarza be ready now that his chance has come?" "I am sure he will extend the champion."

Ted Carroll

"If Marciano can dispose of this young, rugged, smart contender in sensational fashion, he will have come a long way . . ."

Nat Fleischer

Groups LaStarza with Charles and Moore as the top three contenders as of August, 1953.

 

Revisionist history. Valdes beat higher rated fighters than cockell did.


Ring Magazine May 1954

Champion: Rocky Marciano
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Nino Valdes
3. Don ****ell
4. Jimmy Slade
5. Tommy Jackson
6. Roland La Starza
7. Dan Bucceroni
8. Earl Walls
9. Heinz Neuhaus
10. Tommy Harrison

Ring Magazine July 1954

Champion--Rocky Marciano
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Nino Valdes
3. Don ****ell
4. Jimmy Slade
5. Roland LaStarza
6. Hurricane Jackson
7. Don Bucceroni
8. Bob Baker
9. Earl Walls
10. Heinz Neuhaus


As you can see Cockells 1 win in 1954 over a top 10 fighter was Roland Lastarza, who went on to lose to nobodies Charlie Norkus and Julio Mederos that same year calling into question whether or not cockell fought a live opponent or a washed up version

Harry kid Matthews was RING number 8 in the first fight when he fought cockell. Unrated the last two times. Kid Matthews was a light heavyweight who spent his career being protected on the west coast by jack Kearns until he cashed him out against Marciano!

Cockell suffered a knockout loss to journeyman heavyweight Jimmy Slade. It was a one sided affair


“Jimmy Slade's short hooks punched down Cockell's guard from the start and made way for a left hook to the chin in the 1st. Cockell took a count of 6. A short right floored Cockell for a count of 7. Cockell rallied in the 2nd, but in the 3rd he was down again from a left hook. He took an 8 count. In the 4th, two-fisted attacks from Slade had Cockell on the ropes, he dropped to his knees but wasn't counted. A right and a left hook to the chin dropped him again,now for a count of 6. Slade was hammering away, Cockell went down on his knees again, rose and was met by more blows before the referee stopped it.“- AP


“Valdes got a few opportunities to step it up but lost each time”


His resume and the numbers don’t support your theory. Look up top. Valdes defeated the RING number 1 contender Ezzard Charles, and knocked out the RING number 5 and RING number 9 heavyweights Jackson and Euro champ Neuhaus.
I would say these are definitive moments of Valdes seizing the opportunity when stepping up...a lot more than can be said about cockells opposition!

 

Rocky Jones- Lastarza




A slim crowd of about 1,400 paid a total of $3,000 to see Jones win a unanimous decision over LaStarza.

Former Chester Times sports writer Matt Zabitka wrote, “Jones wasn’t given even a minuscule chance of defeating Roland LaStarza, let alone lasting more than a round.

“LaStarza, who was to face undefeated champion Rocky Marciano in a world title bout in September of 1953, was seeking some patsies to beef up his record.

“Jones, a short, muscular type blessed with tons of guts, was booked to be LaStarza’s human punching bag.”

In the rematch at Brooklyn’s Eastern Parkway Arena in front of a national television audience, Rocky lost a unanimous decision after knocking down LaStarza in the second round and cutting both of his eyes.

“LaStarza was the big draw then,” explained Zabitka. “He had to be protected. Jones was a nobody, hence the rapidly arranged rematch.”

Many years later, Rocky Jones was asked why he didn’t continue his assault on LaStarza in their second bout. After knocking down LaStarza in the second round and bloodying his face, many fight fans felt Rocky could have finished him off.

Rocky’s answer was, “Before the fight, the big guys from New York came to see me. They just said, ‘You know what you’re supposed to do, don’t you, Rocky?’ They told me I wasn’t supposed to do my best.”


Here is what Philadelphia Boxing historian Chuck Hasson had to say about lastarza

His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed lt.heavy Dan Bucceroni and to lt. heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again than KOing him early which I believe he could have done easily. Look at LaStarza's record there are no tough names on it except for Marciano.I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. Jones was approached at the morning weigh-in by Jimmy White (Amato) a shadowy figure who was a mob contact man and manager and told Rocky "we don't wan't any of that stuff that happened in Akron."Jones had two good rounds then was told to "cool it." LaStarza NEVER fought a danerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion. Again, let me reinterate-when Marciano fought LaStarza the first time Rocky was boxing for the first time after the Vingo tragedy. Rocky had threatened to quit boxing. Is it any wonder he was not the usual agressive Marciano but an understandably gunshy, tenitive boxer that night ?"-

 

What is your argument anyway? You think cockell had better wins than Valdes 53-55? You think he deserved a title shot over Valdes?


Surprised your defending Lastarza so much. Do the research on him. Can’t you see by now he completely road the coattails of the Marciano split decision loss.

His Manager jimmy fats Deangelo completely protected him from any dangerous fighters to preserve his rating so he could get his promised rematch from Marciano. Truth be told, Lastarza did nothing impressive to earn a title shot other than the IBC manufacturing his number 1 rating. Roland went 1-1 with B level Dan bucceroni. Bucceroni only got his number 3 rating because he beat Lastarza! How about The embarrassing rocky Jones affairs where the club fighter was told to cool it down vs Lastarza. The layne affair which most at ringside thought Rex won. That’s really his resume to get him the number 1 rating?



LaStarza is just the cause celebre of Marciano turd burglars. We have no idea how much above decent he really was. He beat the bum's run of Northeast tiny 1950's heavyweights who all worked the docks and the bars next to the docks on their off-hours.”

 

Jimmy Slade

In late 1951. okay, a bad loss. But four months later Valdes fought a draw with Joe McFadden in a preliminary. McFadden was a never rated 7-7-3 fighter. Is losing to the top five light-heavy Slade worse?

Slade beat Jackson two of three, beat Henry, and beat Earl Walls. Co-ckell's other "bad" defeat was to Randy Turpin who defeated a prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Yes, Turpin was a middle, and Don C a light-heavy with a 12 lb. pull, but despite his size, Valdes lost badly to light-heavies Archie Moore, Harold Johnson, and pocket heavy Bob Satterfield.

I rate Valdes above Co-kell, but Don C wasn't nearly as bad as you're making out, and his record was pretty good.

In his last 22 fights going back to 1950, Co-ckell has gone 20-2, losing only to the former champion Turpin and the in the top five Slade.

He had beaten 9 fighters who were rated at one time or another, and beat four who had fought for the heavyweight championship.

Lloyd Marshall, Albert Yvel, Freddie Beshore, Nick Barone, Albert Finch, Tommy Farr, Johnny Williams, Harry Matthews, and Roland LaStarza.

Nothing awe-inspiring, but only Don C and Marciano defeated Matthews since 1943, with Harry running up an unbeaten streak of 52 bouts and a winning streak of 35 bouts. LaStarza was one fight past being the #1 contender. Yes, I know. Marshall and Farr were old. But most contenders have fights like that.

Matthews was highly enough thought of to be rated by The Ring above Robinson as the #1 all-around fighter for 1951.

Valdes?

His record over the same period was 18-4-1. He had some dubious efforts also, like the draw with McFadden and the split decision with Archie McBride in Havana. I think his best wins, Charles certainly, and Jackson, rate above the best wins of Co-kell, but the gap isn't quite the Grand Canyon you make it, and Don C actually has a bit more depth to his resume. He was rated as far back as 1950 and 1951, far earlier than Valdes.

 

Yes I agree, for a long time now it almost seems that the only men who get to beat beat consecutive rated fighters is the actual champions. It gives them an incredible edge. Often it’s only the match making that allows them to get past the first couple but the experience prepares them for better fighters. As you say, a prospect can dip his toe in contender level then he’s out of that circuit altogether.

 

I have never read a fight report on Valdes McFadden, but it should be noted that was the first year Valdes had moved to United States and began fighting professionally there. No doubt he still had his training wheels on in early 1952. He didn’t lose to McFadden, and knocked him out the other time they fought. What about cockells knockout loss to an 8-5 fighter jock Taylor? Or knocked out after being dropped 9 times by 30-11 fighter Goodwin!

Cockell was smack in the middle of his fighting prime when he fought slade. Slade destroyed him in 4. Slade couldn’t even hit hard. This has to make you seriously question dons ability to take a punch. Considering he didn’t fight many punchers in his career. And he got knocked out twice by tomato cans early in his career


You’re comparing cockell as a heavyweight to Valdes. Harold Johnson and Achie Moore were not only significantly bigger than Turpin, they also defeated several top rated heavyweihts throughout their careers...no shame in losing to Moore or Johnson. Archie knocked out Bobo Olsen in 3, who battered Turpin around the ring. How would cockell have done with Archie or H Johnson?

Speaking of Turpin, what ranked heavyweights did he ever beat? How would he have done with 215lb Valdes?

Again it should be noted...Archie Moore a massive puncher, could not put Nino on the floor in 25 rounds..however 160lb Turpin knocked out cockell. Could cockell take a punch?

Satterfield defeated Holman, Williams, baker all 200lb Plus heavyweights, no shame in losing to him. What 200lb plus heavyweights did Turpin defeat? And serious question, how long until satterfield would have cleaned out cockells glass jaw?

Disagree, cockells record was pretty bad at heavy. Valdes took on a slew of rated heavyweights....cockell only took on heavyweights who couldn’t punch a lick, very protected

“Top 5 slade”

Not at heavyweight, a light heavyweight. And he couldn’t punch at all. He was featherfisted



“Lloyd Marshall, Albert Yvel, Freddie Beshore, Nick Barone, Albert Finch, Tommy Farr, Johnny Williams, Harry Matthews, and Roland LaStarza.”

Marshall was beyond washed up

Farr.....He fought Farr in 1953...Farr fought Louis for the world title in 1937!! Enough said

Yvel....euro level at best. Never top 10 at heavyweight

Beshore..unrated, one of the worst to ever receive a title shot in history..have you seen him on film?

Barone...an unrated light heavyweight who weighed in at 171 and it was his final career fight coming off 3 consecutive losses

Finch...another euro level...never top 10 at heavyweight

Williams...got knocked out by 3 Nino Valdes victims Neuhaus, Jackson, and Erskine

Lastarza...Arguably washed up when he fought cockell...that same year he fought cockell, he also got destroyed by Charlie norkus and then obscure Julio Mederos in 5. He was rated, but lastarza was finished as a world class fighter

“Nothing awe-inspiring, but only Don C and Marciano defeated Matthews since 1943, with Harry running up an unbeaten streak of 52 bouts and a winning streak of 35 bouts. LaStarza was one fight past being the #1 contender.“


Easy to run up that unbeaten streak of 52 bouts when your manager doc Kearns hides you on the northwest fighting only B level light heavyweight competition! Had he fought Moore, Charles, H Johnson, Bivins...the real light heavyweight contenders, you would have seen a lot of Ls


“His record over the same period was 18-4-1. He had some dubious efforts also, like the draw with McFadden and the split decision with Archie McBride in Havana. I think his best wins, Charles certainly, and Jackson, rate above the best wins of Co-kell, but the gap isn't quite the Grand Canyon you make it, and Don C actually has a bit more depth to his resume. He was rated as far back as 1950 and 1951, far earlier than Valdes“

The draw with McFadden certainly doesn’t compare to cockells knockout losses to 8-5 jock Taylor and 30-11 Goodwin

McBride was a poor result for Valdes, no doubt

Charles rates as an overwhelmingly better win than cockell has on his resume. A win over a former lineal heavyweight champion who was the current number 1 contender, who went on to nearly beat Marciano a year later rates as a monster win

Jackson, the RING number 5 heavyweight, fresh off stoppage wins over Bucceroni norkus and Layne...also decision over Clarence Henry....Jackson was smack in his prime...he would go on to fight for the world title 3 years later .


Heinz Neuhaus...European champion...the ring number 9. Never had been off his feet before Valdes rocked him in 4...Neuhaus beat hoff, sys, London, Layne, Bucceroni, bygraves, Williams during his career

Would Matthews or the 54 version of lastarza have beaten any of these 3 men?

Parker and Sys...both appeared in ring top 10 at one point in their careers


And how could we forget the ultimate test...head to head


Cockell and Valdes fought. Valdes destroyed him in 3. It was a massacre. He floored cockell in round 1. Knocked him around the ring and sliced up his eye in round 2...that was it for don...how could you overlook his victory?


And are we taking their whole careers into consideration? When cockell was long retired...Valdes was still fighting until 1960 beating the likes of Joe Erskine Brian London mike de John 2x John Holman Wayne Bethea Johnny Summerlin and Harold carter!

 

"Do you think he deserved a shot over Valdes." I agree with Budd Shulberg. Here are from a 1955 article--

"Six months ago, when Al Weill was giving Moore the usual brush, and trying to decide which bum--Nino Valdes or Don Co-kell--was the best meat for Rocky, Moore started talking up his rights again."

He goes on about a campaign being organized to get Moore a shot,

"a petition of 100 sports editors willing to plump for Marciano to meet Mr. Outside-looking-in instead of trumped up importations like Valdes and Co-kell."

After the Co-kell fight, Weill "looked his interviewers in the eye and allowed as how the next logical opponent for Rocky might be Bob Baker. But Archie has knocked Baker out and beaten Valdes twice."

The Ring commented on Baker--"Baker would be not better than a 6-1 underdog against Marciano. Perhaps no betting at all."

This is The Ring ratings for the month ended June 22, 1955

Champion-----Rocky Marciano
1-----Archie Moore
2-----Bob Baker
3-----Don Co-kell
4-----Nino Valdes
5-----Hurricane Jackson
6-----Ezzard Charles
7-----Earl Walls
8-----John Holman
9-----Rex Layne
10----Heinz Neuhaus

Valdes apparently hadn't impressed The Ring staff enough to get rated above Don C at this date. Don C aside, the top five is pretty good. Moore had beaten Baker & Valdes. Baker had beaten Valdes. Valdes had beaten Jackson.

There no doubt for me who the #1 guy was. Moore had beaten Valdes twice, KO'd Baker, beaten Henry, Satterfield, Johnson 4 of 5, and Slade.

Archie Moore was all by himself as the #1 contender going into 1955 and even more so by the summer.

The best man Marciano didn't fight between 1951-1955 is for me Harold Johnson.

As for the last Marciano LaStarza bit, I think it best to let such a puerile comment pass.

 

Doesn’t even compare to Valdes list of RING top 10 victims

Agramonte
Charles
Doc Williams
Neuhaus
Parker
Sys
Jackson
Cockell
Erskine
dejohn 2x
Summerlin
Carter
Mcmutry
Holman
Richardson
Bethea
London


That’s 18 victories over RING magazine top 10. Has their ever been another contender in history with that many wins over top 10 fighters who never received a title shot?

 

you just completely dodged the question

Who deserved the cockell title defense....Valdes or cockell?

Take note nba and ring rated Valdes number 1 from October 1954-May 1955


Moore isn’t on trial here..we know his resume is super impressive. Cockell is on trial here, should he have gotten the title shot over Valdes?


And those rankings are irrelevant....you posted the RING ratings after Moore Valdes already fought. What matters is what we’re the RING ratings prior to Marciano fighting cockell?

And for the record Valdes destroyed fat tub of lard cockell in 3 in 1955

 

Here’s a different take on valdes

Pittsburgh COURIER July 24, 1954-

Hurricane Had Color, Nothing More . . Approximately a year ago, Nino Valdes, the Cuban heavyweight contender, was hailed in fistic circles as "the him as the "most likely to succeed." He then went on, to the delight of the prognosticators, to beat Ezzard Charles, proving to one and all that he was no flash In the pan; about as good a heavyweight as you will find these days. . Last week! Nino, who speaks much Spanish and very little English, established himself as the leading candidate for the most cherished award they give out in boxing. He did more for boxing in 1954 than any other boxer - when he knocked out Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson in 2 "minutes and 35 seconds of the second round. ' At the end of the year, Nino will receive our vote as the individnal who "did the most for boxing in 1954."

Hurricane Jackson had to be disposed of . . . and Valdes . was equal to the task. That does not mean, of course, that the Hurricane who was just a breeze for nino should have his citizenship papers confiscated; that he should be put on a barge and shipped out to sea. Jackson definitely added some color and drama to the sock scene before, he ran into trouble . Valdes, to be specific. n : . Jackson never has been a fighter of - championship caliber, despite the fact that he disposed of Clarence Henry, Charley Norkus, Dan Bucceroni Rex Layne, But he did get the tub thumpers to beating their drums and excited - some people in a mild manner because he possessed the one thing so many fighters lack today that indefinable thing they call "color." He was an unorthodox campaigner." He reintroduced the "double" uppercut and baffled inept opponents by leading with his right, and, also, gave us a new version ot the old "Jersey Joe Walcott shuffle." Yes, indeed, he was colorful . . . but the scholars of the prize fighting business knew all along that he couldn't fight; that eventually he would run into a guy like Valdes and get flattened.

In a way, It is too bad that Jackson can't fight. If he had all the necessary qualities, Hurricane could definitely add some excitement to the drab heavyweight picture. Instinctively, he is a. ham at heart. Tommy loves to be in the limelight, thrives on publicity and public adulation. He should be a bona fide member of the Actors' Guild. ' - . He has a knack of coming up with delightful expenses after suffering defeat. Following his loss to Willie Troy, for example, he growled: ; "You can blame this defeat on my mother, not me. My mother is the cause of it. I wanted to go out with .girls. She wouldn't let me, made me stay at home. That upset me, caused me mental anguish. " How can a - guy fight if he can't go out with girls?" The answer to that, of course, Is . . . how can a guy fight if he does go out with girls, especially before a fight? . . . No one would be so blase as to reprimand the Hurricane for wanting to go out with girls. That is dandy recreation. But you don't do it before a big fight. Some how, girls have a way of distracting young men who should have their minds on future business. In this case, Hurricane's future business included a champion by the flame of Rocky Marciano. But that was Jackson's excuse for defeat girls. That was the most far - fetched explanation for inglorious defeat any athlete, or fighter, has ever given out In the entire history of the sports world. There were those, however, who were willing to accept it. They decided to give him a real chance. . He was matched with Nino, a big heavyweight who does not hold the feminine portion of the population in such exalted esteem. Valdes belted him out in less than two rounds. Jackson couldn't blame that on his mother or the girls. Before the fight they shipped him up in the New York mountains and made sure that he was trained thoroughly. He was in perfect physical condition when the bell rang. There was only one thing wrong with the Hurricane he just couldn't fight. Valdes Could Give Marciano Trouble ... That victory made Valdes only logical contender for heavyweight title. The International Boxing Club hopes to match him with the winner of the Marciano - Ezzard Charles return bout in September. All Nino has to do now is sit around and ignore the girls, wait for his big opportunity. He insists that he can beat Marciano. "I'll knock him out inside of four rounds," he said after disposing of Jackson. "Marciano can't take my punch." That, of course,, is the prediction of a fighter flushed with victory. After belting Jackson out, Nino was of the opinion he could beat anyone in the house, like the great John L. Sullivan. , But it won't be that easy.Marciano has Charles in the impending return bout which is considerably tougher and dangerous than the likes of Hurricane Jackson. But Valdes is the kind of fighter who could give Rocky trouble. He Is big, takes a good punch and can throw bombs well. He could be the man they have been looking for!

It isn't likely that Charles will beat Marciano in September, or any other month, for that matter. Ezzard lacks the heft and power. As a, boxer, he has the edge. But boxers are Marciano's meat. - Valdes, on the other hand, is a puncher. No one knows right now how good a puncher, but he is definitely a member of that school. He is tall and could keep the ever - charging Marciano off with his stiff left jab. Meantime, Hurricane Jackson should take stock, decide' that perhaps his mother isn't to blame, after all. In other words . . . there's no place like home, Tommy.

 

Cockell was lower rated when he got the title shot over Valdes.

You said Machen accomplished enough he shouldn’t have had to fight an eliminator with Folley for the right to meet Patterson.

So why did Valdes have to meet Moore in an eliminator? Hadn’t he already done enough? Look at these rankings...Valdes beat the number 3, 6, and 8 ranked guys. Cockell beat NO one on this list. Actually quite funny, cockell did fight the number 10 Jimmy Slade. Slade cant crack an egg yet destroyed cockell in 4 easy rounds

Why should number 1 Valdes get bypassed for the number 2 then have to fight a title eliminator with a hall of famer!

Where was cockells eliminator?


the RING February 1955


Rocky Marciano, Champion

1. Nino Valdes
2. Don Cockell
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Bob Baker
5. Earl Walls
6. Heinz Neuhaus
7. Rex Layne
8. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
9. Charley Norkus
10. Jimmy Slade

Valdes record against these men 4-2 wins over cockell Charles Neuhaus and Jackson. Losses to baker

Cockell 0-2 against these men losses by knockout to slade and Valdes