Harry Kid Matthews vs the following men

Clarence Henry 1952
Bob Baker 1953
Archie Moore 1952
Nino Valdes 1954
Ezzard Charles 1951
Jersey Joe Walcott 1952
Joe Louis 1951
Bob Satterfield 1953
Harold Johnson 1953
Hurricane Jackson 1954
Earl Walls 1954
John Holman 1955
Joey maxim 1951


Thoughts?

 

Thanks dude


I think

Henry- lose by KO
Baker- Lose by Decision
Moore- Loss by KO
Valdes- Lose by KO
Charles- Lose by KO
Walcott- Lose by KO
Louis- Lose by decision
Satterfield- 50-50 either win or lose by KO
H Johnson- Lose by decision
Jackson- Lose by TKO
Walls- win by decision
Holman- 50-50 Lose by KO or win by decision
Maxim- Lose by decision


I have Matthews losing 11 times winning 1, with 2 could go either way

I’ll explain my reasoning later

 

Kind of a shitty way to rank.

That said, Henry twice beat bob baker whom beat Rex Layne 3x so Henry has the highest quality of wins between either of the two . Also Archie Moore was way better than Rex Layne.

We have film of both fighters ...

Matthews looked like a very poor mans Gene Tunney. Low hands, very stiff, not fluid, lunged a lot, not graceful or athletic couldn’t hit hard at heavyweight, his management protected him from the division’s biggest hitters.

Henry looks tall, smooth, athletic. Had Devastating left hook, was a goog infighter, fast hands, and a relentless finisher, he was proven against tough competition

Matthew would have tried to lunge back from one of Henry’s long hard left hooks And been put to sleep (see marcianos fight). You got to remember, Henry was not only bigger than Mathews but much more athletic, had faster hands, and considerably more power in either hand. Henry beat a really good big man bob baker twice. Mathews fought one big man, fat don, and looked awful losing three times


I have the baker Henry fight on film. Both look excellent. The athleticism displayed in this fight is a site to see. Two tall men displaying fantastic infighting, high workrate, and excellent punching skills. Henry’s left hook is a game changer. It was in this fight.

Matthews manager Hurley refused a match with Henry because he hit too hard. Henry was a west coast guy, but Hurley only fought the ham n eggers on the west coast

 

Baker faced much better completion


While Hurley was hiding Matthews against stiffs on the west coast to pad his record....

Baker was taking on the division’s best and most dangerous punchers Moore Valdes Henry Satterfield ...men Hurley wouldn’t dare put Matthews in the ring with


Baker beat 3x the amount of ranked contenders as Matthews did

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Baker looks really good here. He’s big has a nice jab good combinations he can wack a bit he’s smooth and athletic. Good handspeed, he can take a punch, a good outside and inside fighter.

The only fighter Matthews fought close to bakers size was cockell and he lost all 3x. We’ve seen cockell on film, he wasn’t a good fighter anywhere near a bob baker level. In fact baker easily beat Slade and Valdes, two guys who destroyed cockell in 3-4 rounds

Style wise...Matthews never fought a big man with the skills of a bob baker. Matthews couldn’t hit hard and his low hands lunge back style wouldn’t work against a tall fast handed outside boxer like baker who would jab him to death and beat him to the punch with rapid combinations

Matthews was completely untested vs a skilled big fighter like this and I suspect he would have failed

Lucky to make it to the final bell

 

You have to understand men like Lastarza Matthews cockell had decent records because their managers protected them their entire careers. They were hidden from the heavyweights division’s biggest punchers and most skilled boxers. The managers recognized their limitations and did the best they could to manufacture their high rating and hold on to them without sacrificing them

Matthews hid on the west coast his entire career his manager refusing fights with west coast big punchers Archie Moore and Clarence Henry

Lastarza manager ducked them all. Refused fights with bob baker Ezzard Charles Joe Louis and Clarence Henry

Don Cockell was euro level at best, his manager twice took a risk when he thew him in with athletic big heavyweights Valdez and Slade and don got destroyed in 3-4 both times


These men get overrated because they were Marciano victims while Henry baker Valdez never got to fight. Marciano. Marcianos manager was happy to face high rated overprotected weak punchers like cockell Matthews Lastarza. High pay day low risk. Weill did not want to have to throw Marciano in with huge punching Henry and Valdez or tall skilled big men like baker unless he had too

 

Never once did I say baker Valdes Henry were stronger than Walcott Charles Louis Moore

However I Firmly hold my position that Valdes baker Henry were clearly stronger than cockell Matthew and lastarza

 

Easy not to have blunders when you’re facing weak hitters or tomato cans like Don C, Matthews, and Lastarza did at heavyweight

Don C was really a light heavyweight
Matthews a light heavyweight


Baker Valdes Henry were good sized heavyweights

 

Bivins weighed 183lb when he beat Henry. How is that a light - heavyweight?

Moore weighed 180 and 197lb when he beat Valdes. How is that a light heavyweight?

Satterfield weighed 181lb when he beat baker. How is that a light heavyweight?


You also named 3 men (Bivins Moore and satterfield) whom Matthews never fought. What would matthews record have been against those 3?



Matthews only lost to hall of fame type guys? Was don c a hall of fame type guy? Matthews lost to him 3 times. Valdes destroyed cockell in 3 rounds.