Harry Kid Matthews vs the following men

Except they were

• On October 6, 1954, the National Boxing Association ruled that Nino Valdes was the lone logical contender for Rocky Marciano's World Heavyweight Championship.

Why would they rule Valdes the ONLY logical contender for marcianos crown if he was viewed as no different than cockell?

 

Nino was still the NBAs most logical when Marciano signed to fight cockell instead....so you are wrong once again

 

What I don't understand is Nino Valdes was the clear #1 contender as of October 1954. Jim Norris, head of the IBC, met with Al Weill in October because he wanted Marciano and Valdes to fight in February 1955.

Norris also wanted Moore and Olson to fight - and Moore said he would if the winner could fight Marciano.

Don Cockell was the #2 contender.

While he waited for he Marciano fight, Valdes fought twice - in December 1954 and January 1955 - scoring two knockouts.

Yet, for some reason, Valdes is told he has to fight Moore and Marciano signs to fight the 10-1 lower-rated Cockell instead.


The fact is Nino Valdes was the number-one contender. He had a ONE FOOT reach advantage over Marciano. (If Marciano beat guys with a greater reach advantage than that, please let me know.) And Valdes could bang.

The head of the IBC wanted to make Marciano-Valdes and he wanted it in February 1955. Valdes was knocking guys out in tuneups preparing for Marciano. And Marciano's manager (also an IBC matchmaker) said they'd consider it, but instead he gave the shot to a guy more Marciano's size and rated below Valdes (Cockell).

Roadblocks were put in Valdes' path and, unfortunately, he didn't make it around them. You can say Valdes wouldn't have won against Marciano (I definitely favor Marciano). Maybe he wouldn't have. But the fact is we'll never know because Marciano's camp took steps to try to get around facing him.

There was no rationale for the champ's camp to insist the light heavyweight champ fight the number-one heavyweight contender ... while the champ fought the (10-to-1 underdog) #2 contender instead.

Moore wasn't the top contender at heavyweight. Cockell wasn't. Valdes was.

The IBC officially named Valdes as "the logical" contender. (Since they couldn't name a "mandatory" that's how they identified the person they wanted a champ to fight next.)

So, instead, something illogical took place.

And, frankly, there was no rationale for having a former heavyweight champ (Braddock) who expressed his dislike for Valdes to be the ref and sole judge in an eliminator involving Valdes.

Styles make fights. Moore "apparently" - since we haven't seen the film so we'll have to trust in Braddock's judgement - was a "just a little too slick" for Valdes in their eliminator.

But we never saw Marciano fight a tall banger with a foot reach on him, either. I would've liked to have seen it.

 

If folks at the time didn't see much of a difference than why was Valdes named LONE logical contender for marcianos crown from October 6 1954-may 1955?

Cockell never earned such a distinction. Again, Valdes should have clearly gotten the title shot over cockell

Your June 1955 ratings took place after cockell Marciano. It's irrelevelant

"Satterfield"



When was Bob Satterfield number-one contenders for Marciano's title?

And when did the IBC President Jim Norris publicly state he wanted Marciano to fight him, and when did Al Weill block satterfields title shot by insisting he fight a couple eliminators first - even though he was already number-one?

 

First of all, if Weill wanted Marciano to fight Valdes, Rocky would have.

Valdes had already beaten half the top 10 heavyweights – Ezzard Charles, the reigning European Heavyweight champ Heinz Neuhaus, “Hurricane” Jackson, Karel Sys and a handful of fringe contenders waiting for his turn. He was the legit number-one contender. Nothing was preventing the fight from taking place BUT AL WEILL.

The link you posted of June 1955 ratings was about the 15th time you posted a set of RING rankings that took place after the second Marciano-Cockell bout. The head of the IBC Jim Norris was pushing hard for Marciano to defend against Valdes in Miami because Norris thought he could make a fortune. But there are articles in which Norris is quoted as saying Weill won’t commit. And he never did.

Nobody Marciano was defending against had to win "eliminators" to meet him. What eliminators did Walcott, La Startza, Charles or Cockell win? They didn’t. You schedule “eliminators” to “eliminate” someone.

Nobody was begging for a Cockell-Marciano fight. Cockell was one of the biggest underdogs up to that time in boxing history.

And if Weill wanted to schedule an eliminator, why didn't he match #1 contender Valdes with #2 contender Cockell (who Valdes later destroyed)?

He didn’t because he knew Valdes had previously lost a decision to Moore. Moore’s style (which was nothing like Marciano’s) gave Valdes problems. It didn't matter that Moore wasn't rated in the top 10 at heavyweight. Weill insisted Valdes had to fight Moore.

Weill had Valdes fighting one top 10 guy after another (while Marciano spent a whole year focused on Charles, who Valdes had just beaten), even forcing Valdes to fly to freaking BELGIUM (no easy feat in 1954) to fight Sys, no doubt hoping Valdes would lose to one of them. Hell, the Valdes-Jackson fight was billed as an eliminator, too. When Valdes destroyed him in a round, what happened?

Nothing.

 

Cockell was considered a joke title defense by the media. He was a 10 to 1 underdog, one of the biggest underdogs in history at the time.

"Ring didn't see Valdes as vastly superior"

Yet they rated him number 1 in the world in 1954 and 1955 prior to cockell fighting Marciano

"Moore obviously superior to Valdes"

Yes, but Valdes was obviously superior to cockell.

And the Moore Valdes fight was basically a 1 round difference. AP had the fight scored even going into round 15. Valdes gave Archie Moore all he could handle.

 

Let's face it. Rocky was pretty much Weill's stooge. That creep treated the Rock like a dim-witted gofer, even slapping his face once in public for some imagined transgression. Marciano would have fought Godzilla if Weill told him to. Weill for devious reasons of his own twisted mind, did not want anything to do with Valdes. If he had wanted Marciano to defend against Valdes, Rocky would've fought him. End of story. What we know is a guy who was a 6'3" slugger with a foot reach on Marciano fought his way to the number-one contender spot twice, and MARCIANO's manager (who got HALF of all Marciano's income) kept putting up roadblocks and matching that contender tough UNTIL he lost.

 

Nino Valdes was the clear #1 contender as of October 1954. Jim Norris, head of the IBC, met with Al Weill in October because he wanted Marciano and Valdes to fight in February 1955.

Norris also wanted Moore and Olson to fight - and Moore said he would if the winner could fight Marciano.

Don Cockell was the #2 contender.

While he waited for he Marciano fight, Valdes fought twice - in December 1954 and January 1955 - scoring two knockouts.

Yet, for some reason, Valdes is told he has to fight Moore and Marciano signs to fight the 10-1 lower-rated Cockell instead.


The fact is Nino Valdes was the number-one contender. He had a ONE FOOT reach advantage over Marciano. (If Marciano beat guys with a greater reach advantage than that, please let me know.) And Valdes could bang.

The head of the IBC wanted to make Marciano-Valdes and he wanted it in February 1955. Valdes was knocking guys out in tuneups preparing for Marciano. And Marciano's manager (also an IBC matchmaker) said they'd consider it, but instead he gave the shot to a guy more Marciano's size and rated below Valdes (Cockell).

Roadblocks were put in Valdes' path and, unfortunately, he didn't make it around them. You can say Valdes wouldn't have won against Marciano (I definitely favor Marciano). Maybe he wouldn't have. But the fact is we'll never know because Marciano's camp took steps to try to get around facing him.

There was no rationale for the champ's camp to insist the light heavyweight champ fight the number-one heavyweight contender ... while the champ fought the (10-to-1 underdog) #2 contender instead.

Moore wasn't the top contender at heavyweight. Cockell wasn't. Valdes was.

The IBC officially named Valdes as "the logical" contender. (Since they couldn't name a "mandatory" that's how they identified the person they wanted a champ to fight next.)

So, instead, something illogical took place.

And, frankly, there was no rationale for having a former heavyweight champ (Braddock) who expressed his dislike for Valdes to be the ref and sole judge in an eliminator involving Valdes.

Styles make fights. Moore "apparently" - since we haven't seen the film so we'll have to trust in Braddock's judgement - was a "just a little too slick" for Valdes in their eliminator.

But we never saw Marciano fight a tall banger with a foot reach on him, either. I would've liked to have seen it.

 

Valdes had already beaten half the top 10 heavyweights – Ezzard Charles, the reigning European Heavyweight champ Heinz Neuhaus, “Hurricane” Jackson, Karel Sys and a handful of fringe contenders waiting for his turn. He was the legit number-one contender. Nothing was preventing the fight from taking place BUT AL WEILL.

The head of the IBC Jim Norris was pushing hard for Marciano to defend against Valdes in Miami because Norris thought he could make a fortune. But there are articles in which Norris is quoted as saying Weill won’t commit. And he never did.

"Eliminators"

Nobody Marciano was defending against had to win "eliminators" to meet him. What eliminators did Walcott, La Startza, Charles or Cockell win? They didn’t. You schedule “eliminators” to “eliminate” someone. Jackson-Valdes was billed an eliminator and disposed of him in 2 rounds. Where was his title shot? Cockell got it instead

Nobody was begging for a Cockell-Marciano fight. Cockell was one of the biggest underdogs up to that time in boxing history.

And if Weill wanted to schedule an eliminator, why didn't he match #1 contender Valdes with #2 contender Cockell (who Valdes later destroyed)?

 

Moore may have been more "feared" than Valdes but Valdes was certainly more "feared" than cockell was.