Does Sonny Liston divide opinion more than any other heavyweight?

Did he display this dog when he fought with a broken jaw [Marshall ] ? A broken nose [Williams]?

 

How about if he had been given the opportunity to challenge for the title earlier against Patterson / Ingo .Then defended against Machen,Folley,Williams,DeJohn,Harris?
You can't create a legacy if you are denied the opportunity to do so!

 

Oh come on you've criticised the mods often enough and implied they were in some posters pockets, mine especially and you have a proven track record of implying anyone who disagrees with your assessments of fighters is a hater . Marciano is a shining example of this!
IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGH WAY! Reznick.

 

I was suspicious, beginning a few years back,that Perry is in fact DONALD TRUMP. Before you dismiss it, review his tweets for attitude, verbiage and tone. It is uncanny.
Confirm from the time stamps on his posts that he never posted during a debate.
He stopped coming here in a meaningful way post election.

 

With all due respect, Sonny was not rated high enough to earn a crack at the title before Ingo won it. Once Sonny was in a position to challenge he not only got himself suspended (looking to pick up women whilst impersonating a policeman) but there was a legitimate trilogy going on where everyone had to wait in line until the rematch clauses were resolved.

Williams and Dejohn never could have challenged for a title before Liston won it anyway.

 

Yes you can have that standard. Tons of, if not most communities do. Internet literacy is going up for the average person, and people now realize that there is too much inherent toxicity in open communities, and that you have to do some upkeep and curation, set some standards and norms, to be taken seriously as a community trying to grow and take care of its members.

And I completely agree that with you.
95% of the potential of this forum is being left off the table because of the TMZ crap.

 

I see where you're coming from - and I have no doubt that he was capable of winning the title far earlier and making far more defences - but surely if we're going to separate the ATGs from the 'run of the mill' we have to be harsh and unsympathetic on occasions?

As I said, you won't get much argument out of me if you proclaim him the best heavyweight in-between Louis and the then Clay and to paraphrase Steve Bunce it's difficult enough to become the best of your era never mind history.

 

Wow! I might have to revaluate my opinion on Trump based on his boxing knowledge! Perry is a good poster.

 

Sonny was absolutely a great fighter without fighting Ingo Johansson. That said though, we cannot ever know for sure if he was the outright best of his era own without facing him.

 

Sonny wasn’t rated high enough to earn a crack at the title in 1959 but radamacher was? And London?

Williams couldn’t have challenged for the world title instead of mcneeley?

 

I’m gonna go back and investigate. You may be on to something big!

 

No we know for sure he was the outright best fighter of his era

You’re wrong

 

Never happened. Perry’s m.o. was calling various skilled and talented 80s-2010s heavyweights highly pejorative names when they were matched up against ATGs from previous generations. I complained about it multiple times; you were mum. But anyway, I think you and I are on the same page on this one now.

 

This isn’t a right or wrong situation.

Probably. We know Sonny was probably the best of that era. That’s all.

Don’t forget Sonny only knocked out Patterson three years after Ingo had already did it.

Patterson had been a pretty good champion. It was Ingo that ended that run not Sonny.

Now that’s not sonnys fault. This is how it was.

Patterson and Ingo knocked each other out. Some could say Sonny got what was left after that. Then he lost his title to Ali.

There is no “knowing for sure” about a lot of things to do with Sonny Liston. How old he was. Who killed him. What he was up to when he was pulling women over pretending to be a policeman.

 

There are no certainties when it comes to conjecture.