Chris Byrd v Primo Carnera

How can you establish that these fighters were much better than Carnera, and how many of them were in their primes?

 

I think Byrd is tremendously under appreciated. He spent almost his entire career fighting men substantially larger and stronger than himself and still managed to nab a title and compile a more than respectable resume. As a result of this his defensive skills became sort of tailored to stymie bigger men, and he made more than one decent fighter look foolish with his movement and fast hands. People like to say how he got lucky against Vitali, but that was a very competitive fight up until the stoppage, with Byrd more than holding his own against Vittles throughout the contest, and even starting to turn the tide a little towards the end.

My opinions on Carnera are a little more lukewarm. I don't think he was terrible, and he could clearly punch hard, but he was frequently clumsy, tentative and untutored in how best to use his size. One could argue the same case against many of the giants Byrd fought, but the fact was, aside from Ibeabuchi, no one ever got to a prime Byrd, and Carnera wouldn't pose any problems that Byrd wasn't already well prepared for.

I think Byrd likely outboxes Carnera and makes it look easy. That isn't a slight on Carnera, but more a reflection on how skilful Byrd was, especially against bigger men that were his bread and butter.

 

Byrd shuts him out.

 

Was Carnera truly a world class super heavy by modern standards? If he was (an argument could be made), what stylistic or physical advantages did he have that could help him beat Byrd?

For me the closest opponent to the above that you've mentioned who could conceivably be compared to Carnera is Vitali, and I think most sane thinking people would agree that Vitali was a cut above Primo in almost every department. Byrd was able to win rounds off him with his speed and movement, and I think he would do the same and worse to Carnera, maybe even knocking him down or hurting him along the way (Primo was a hell of a lot more hittable than Vitali, with not the sturdiest of whiskers).

 

Former world champ, wins against Evander, Vitali and a prime Tua, generally excellent visible skillset (footwork, head movement, parrying, countershots). I'm actually surprised he's not rated higher. He was easily one of the most skilful heavies of the last thirty years, and comparable to any of the HW tricksters of old.

 

Vitali and Wlad are much better than Carnera imo.Do you disagree?

 

Check out Byrd's fight with Povetkin.

Byrd was past prime, Povetkin pre-prime. But a hell of a fight. Byrd had some skills.

 

No, but I would say that Carnera was better than Golotta and McCline.

That puts him in the middle of the cluster.

 

Byrd seems to have been very effective against big guys who did not have a prohibitive height/reach advantage, but he seems to have struggled against guys with the dimensions of Carnera.

It is not just the Klitschko's, he under performed against Golotta and McCline, two fighters who were barely worthy to lace up his gloves at the time.

Carnera would use his reach, and lean on Byrd when he got in close, and the tactics would be effective.

Byrd would not have the power to hurt Carnera, so Carnera would likely maul his way yo any ugly decision win, or perhaps Byrd would get in enough clean punches to eek out a decision.

Either way, it is no easy night for Byrd!

 

I don't think so at all I can see both Golota and McCline both clearly beating Carnera .. Carnera never defeated anyone on their level in his career.

 

I can't agree quite frankly.

Carnera has a much better resume than either, and he beat much better men than either.

I would have to install him as the betting favorite against both!

 

Id take Byrd in a competitive decision

 

This is a good, well reasoned analysis of the speculative fight. I mostly agree with the conclusion, that Byrd would have been a bad stylistic matchup for Carnera, and would have been able to outobx him to a solid decision.

 

I think it's a competitive fight for sure, and an interesting one to consider. Does Carnera's size overwhelm Byrd's slickster style? Can Byrd punch hard enough to keep Carnera off him? Is Carnera's chin sturdy enough to withstand potshot after potshot from a quick-handed Byrd? Can Byrd withstand Carnera's power? Lots of variables to consider, none of which is entirely clear cut.

I don't think Carnera's height is necessarily going to pose the problems you think it would, especially considering he'll be the one coming forward into Byrd's wheelhouse. His weight might prove problematic if he's able to start manhandling Byrd, which would also negate Byrd's head movement, but despite Byrd's light punching he was no weakling, as he showed in numerous fights against physically powerful men.

I can see the fight going both ways you posited, though the crux of Carnera's success will lie on how well he can take Byrd's shots. KOs aren't the only way a punch can win a fight; there are cuts and swelling to consider too, and Carnera would be eating a hell of a lot of leather if the fight goes on past the first few rounds. Considering Byrd's elusiveness I think that's a strong possibility.

Byrd also had the speed and sharpness to stun Carnera, and certainly enough sting to make him tentative, which again would play into Byrd's hands. Ultimately I just see Byrd having a touch more ways to win than Carnera, which is why I'm going with him. I fully respect your view though.

Resumes don't win fights, and are somewhat pointless when referenced in isolation. It's also not clear that Primo beat better men (under what criteria?). He might have beaten more recognisable and respected names than either man, but again, that has very little bearing on how he performs in a H2H contest.

Regarding how he performs against them, I think it's pretty obvious from the Bowe fights that a prime Golota would absolutely brutalise Carnera. I don't think you can make a cogent argument to support the other side of the argument, unless you want to start talking about DQs or random meltdowns.

McCline at his best was actually not a bad fighter. His problems were self-belief and consistency. He was a powerful puncher with a decent skillset, but he frequently lost fights before stepping through the ropes. I agree though that Carnera did enough in his own career to be labelled "better" than McCline, whatever that's worth.

 

Thanks man.