Who rates higher Willie Pep or Sandy Saddler

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 16, 2018.

  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    25,809
    Likes Received:
    10,018
    Look Pep was a great fighter, all the fights other then the first were very competitive but Wille was the one listed up and had to stop inside the distance and that was what it was .. maybe he wasn't the fighter he was before the accident but we can only go on what happened in the ring and unlike ridiculous comparisons to Norris vs Leonard one fighter was not an old man.
     
    robert ungurean and timmers612 like this.
  2. thesnowman22

    thesnowman22 Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    70
    Pep was 26-28 years old when he fought Saddler. Hard to gauge the injuries as we really dont know, but bottom line, he lost 3 of 4, and got KO'd. Saddler has to be higher.
     
    Homericlegend03 likes this.
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    65,886
    Likes Received:
    53,072
    Sandy... But Pep being chosen is predictable
     
    Homericlegend03 likes this.
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    25,809
    Likes Received:
    10,018
    Funny, I was rewatching the film that I have access too and as usual the type of fight the ref allows dictates a lot .. in the fourth fight Sadler endlessly held Pep with one arm and pounded him with the other .. not just a few times but all fight .. I'm fairly sure the fight was extremely close when the fight was stopped on cuts so that one is inconclusive. The third fight seems to have been really stopped on an injury as well so there is a lot about this to think through .. does anyone now the scorecards of the third and fourth bouts at the time of the stoppages ? I"m also curious if Pep at 27 and 28 was slightly past his prime .. I can see a case for these guys being very, very close depending on the ref and the fight he allows ..
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  5. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    699
    Pep vs Saddler 3


    Saddler vs Pep 4

    • Referee Ray Miller had Pep ahead 5-4 on rounds and 10-6 on points. Judge Frank Forbes had Saddler in front 5-4 on rounds and 7-5 on points. Judge Arthur Aidala had it 4-4-1 on rounds, but he favored Pep 8-6 on points.
     
    robert ungurean and he grant like this.
  6. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    699
    The quote from SuzieQ49 is from Burt Beinstock, a prolific poster on this forum in years past. He saw Willie live in 1943, and he saw him on TV in Saddler vs Pep 2 in 1949. He was of the firm opinion precrash Pep would defeat Saddler.
     
  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    24,496
    Likes Received:
    29,069
    I respect Burt. But I want to see some accounts of Pep’s slippage written before Saddler beat him and experts saying that Saddler would likely beat this once-legendary guy who was now a shell of himself.

    Look at what he did post-crash ... and post-Saddler.

    Sandy was his kryptonite.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,982
    Likes Received:
    27,972
    I always thought that Saddler was more the man who shot Jesse James!
     
    Homericlegend03 likes this.
  9. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,261
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Pep for me....
     
  10. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    699
    "Despite being severely injured in a plane crash on January 5, Pep fought 10 bouts in 1947, again going undefeated. Many thought he had lost something as a fighter, especially after unexpectedly struggling in fights against Archie Wilmer (Pep won a majority decision) and Pedro Biesca (Pep was floored in the fourth round). He defended the world featherweight belt once that year, knocking out Jock Leslie in twelve rounds at Flint, Michigan."

    Tried to find the sources with no luck, but perhaps this from Wikipedia is suggestive.
     
  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    24,496
    Likes Received:
    29,069
    I still ask:

    Who considers Pep’s three best wins to be on par with Saddler’s three best wins?
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  12. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    24,496
    Likes Received:
    29,069
    Saddler’s top three wins are over Pep. Not really any avoiding this for those who side with Pep as the greatest ever in the division.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,089
    Likes Received:
    49,228
    Who has excellent claims for being as great or greater than these two would you say?
     
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    37,088
    Likes Received:
    3,779
    Sanchez is the only one IMO who is at their level
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    37,088
    Likes Received:
    3,779
    Pep fought saddler after surviving a plane crash that gave him long term physical injuries.