Frazier vs punchers gauntlet

And I backed that up with:

Did Frazier have a good chin? My ascertain is chins are best graded when hit by punchers. Fraizer didn't fight many punchers but I saw plenty of stuff that suggest he could not take a good punch. The films shows the following:

1 ) Frazier was floored in his pro 2nd fight and ( floored 2x in the Olympics, I think ). Also down 2x in high stakes NJ amateur match.

2 ) Frazier had his knees buckled by Stander whom Norton beat more convincingly. Stander hardly landed much.

3 ) Frazier was stunned by one of the few punches Joe Bugner landed ( round 11, I think )

4 ) Frazier was staggered by a right uppercut in the first round vs Mexican Heavyweight Manuel Ramos, before stopping him in round 2.

*** Notice a trend, guys who were medium level punchers who did not land much had dramatic results when they did land. This is NOT the sign of a good chin, quite the opposite, and I've been watching Heavyweight boxing for 30+ years. ***

5 ) Frazier by his own words was close to defeat vs. Bonavena, who was likely the second best puncher Frazier fought. I scored that fight a clean draw on the 10 point must system, with Frazier down twice. If Bonavena could do this, the bigger punchers would likely stop Frazier when they landed. This is logical.

 

Exactly right. There was some talk of Martin, fresh off his devastating KO over Liston to meet with Frazier but it did not happen as Martin had eye issues. Why it did not happen earlier is a different topic.

Frazier avoided the WBA tournament, in favor of fighting Buster Mathis, who was ahead midway through the fight until Frazier turned the tides later.

After beating Ali in 1971, Frazier took two very easy fights vs. Stander and Daniels. I have not seen the Daniels fight, but I heard Frazier did not look good. Neither man was ranked in the top 20. Lyle, Norton, and Shavers were all ranked in the top 6 in 1972. But they were passed over...

 

Frazier was a warrior, and came straight at his opponent. Bonavena put him down several times early, and Ali wobbled him too.

But Frazier, in his prime, somehow usually won fights (Ali-2, Foreman-2 being exceptions)

 

Daniels stung Frazier early in the fight. My friend Doug Lord, Daniels' Mgr., told me Terry said after the round:
TD: "Doug, I hurt Joe last round...what should I do now?"
Doug Lord: "Well you better do something, because here he comes, and he looks REALLY mad."

 

50/50 with Marciano, 50/50 Dempsey but Dempsey might Blitzkrieg him early, against old Foreman he should get a points win and he should be favored against Lyle.......after that it gets ugly, Tyson would be a replay of the Marvin fight,Bowe would uppercut him to death, Lewis straight hammer jab followed by the right spell absolute doomsday for Frazier, Liston and Louis would methodically take him apart with punch variety/accuracy and WK would octopussy him in a jab and grab festival.

They only elite puncher Frazier ever met used him as a bowling ball twice......both absolute non competitive affairs....and even in his wins Frazier got wobbled/hit the deck multiple times and his face looked like a moon crater from all the punches he blocked with his face by mainly non punchers..........Foreman laid the blueprint for all talented upper level elite punchers to torpedo Fraziers one way ticket fighting style.

 

II agree entirely. Joe couldn't be KOd by anyone but Big George in real life, yet in hypothetical life, any swinging arm flattens him and everyone survives his grindemup style. And for the coup-de-grau of insults, he is KOd by Calamity Cooney. Tw, Quarry had a great punch ask Mac and Shavers. Then name five prime top 10 contenders Shavers kod

 

The focus seems to be on Frazier's chin, but can someone tell me which fighters on that list fought a puncher as good as Frazier? Better yet, if they fought anyone on his level as a punchers, which ones survived? Chuvalo is pretty much a lock for the best chin of all time minus maybe McCall. The only other fighter to stop Chuvalo was of course Foreman, maybe the biggest puncher of all time.

Every fighter in this list was stopped at least once by a lesser puncher than Frazier accept for Bowe, Marciano and comeback Foreman. The opposite is not true and excluding comeback Foreman, both were also dropped by lesser punchers than Frazier.

 

Another big elephant in the room is that Tyson is one of the most explosive starters in history at any weight and Frazier is a slow one. This is critical among a few other things.

 

Excellent post!

 

Cheers bud, I had to keep adding to it after I posted it just to make sure my points hit home.

 

Good post!

 

Louis very tough
Rocky favor Joe
Liston favor Sonny
Frazier over Lyle
Prime Tyson a bad matchup for Joe
He beats crap out of George 2
The best Bowe is pickem
He beats Wlad but it could be a refs fight ..

 

Your post was pretty long. I agree with your point that he didn' fight that many huge hitters.

With that said what does Ali stopping Frazier in Manila have to do with Joe's chin? How many times was Joe down in 41 rounds against Ali?

I can't believe anyone could view Foreman/Frazier (sober) know who they are and come away with the idea that Frazier's chin was the problem. He practically lifted him off the ground at one point.

 

I agree Quarry toyed with Lyle who honestly doesn't belong on the list.