Does Harry Wills have a case to be ranked higher than Jack Dempsey?

From what I'm seeing nobody is agreeing with your inaccurate posts. You've said multiple times that Dempsey is a coward who was ran out of the ring by Jeannette. That's just one lie you've told.

I never made one homophobic remark to you.

 

So let me get this straight. Steve Compton is right over the people that were actually there? This is important to get this clear.

My evidence: People that were there.
Your evidence: A second hand source who was born probably 30 years or more after the fight took place.

Is this really the road you want to go down? Is your arrogance really that bad?

 

I've read the article you're talking about. Dempsey showed up to an exhibition or something to promote the Willard fight and his opponent decides to be a no show at the last minute so Jeannette shows up offering to take his place. Kearns says no and forbids Dempsey from fighting him. Dempsey says he'll fight any white man but not any black men because all it took was a bad showing and the title shot would be up in smoke.

Funny how Jeannette only offered to fight Dempsey by showing up unannounced and when he knows there is no chance of them fighting. Any other time and Jeannette doesn't do ****. He's the Shannon Briggs of the era. LET'S GO CHAMP!!!

I never called you a homophobic slur.

 

Completely ducked my post because you know I'm right. I'll post it again in case you missed it.

My evidence: People that were there.
Your evidence: A second hand source who was born probably 30 years or more after the fight took place.

Steve Compton wrote an overpriced book on a great boxer. That's about it.

 

You couldn't even get that right. It was 9-3-3 by the UP and 8-5-2 by the INS. Do you lie just out of habit?

6 rounds out of 15 NOT going to Greb does not signify a wide decision. 7 rounds out of 8 not going to Greb sure as hell doesn't either. It was a decent scrap with Greb being the comfortable winner.

The people watching said both didn't look at their best, Gibbons was expected to win, and both looked to be beat by Dempsey. I could go into detail as to why they signed Gibbons but I'm not going to waste my time with you.

 

It wasn't a fight to begin with, it was an exhibition to promote the Willard bout.

Here's a quote attributed to Dempsey: "Many times I’ve had the charge hurled at me that I was prejudiced against Negroes. It is time this utter fiction was laid to rest once and for all. All my life I have believed that all men are basically brothers and that differences of color and religion are superficial. I hate prejudice. I hate discrimination. I hate intolerance. Boxing has been guilty of its share of color bias but I categorically deny that I ever practiced it either as a fighter, manager or promoter. The several Negro fighters who have been under my management will testify to my long-held belief in equality of treatment for all men, regardless of color.

Since I am on the subject of the [url]color line[/url] in boxing, let me clear the air of the many rumors and suspicions and charges that have been moving around me as a result of my failure to fight Harry Wills. I have never run away from a fight in my life. Ever since I left public school to work in the Colorado mines, my credo has been to fight all comers and may the best man win. Harry Wills was a great fighter in his prime and I would have liked to have been matched with him. But it was not to be. The reasons had nothing to do with color prejudice on my part (which I have never held), nor fear of Wills fighting skill. I wanted to fight Wills badly, but Tex Rickard, who had the final say, never matched us."

 

I think he's too stupid to realize that what he is posting is actually supporting your argument. I can think of no other explanation.

 

Yeah I'm sure that happens to you a lot

 

Is this supposed to be serious.

"My credo has been to fight all comers"

The fact of the matter is he did not fight Wills, who was either the leading or at least a leading contender for his entire reign.

The rest is self-justifying pablum.

"Tex Rickard, who had the final say, never matched us."

Rickard didn't match him with Gibbons either, but that fight did come off without Rickard in the promotion.

Dempsey was the heavyweight champion. My take is he could have made a Wills fight happen if he really wanted to, but he chose instead to allow Rickard and/or Kearns to make the decisions. Well, his legacy has to then live with the decisions they made.

 

"both didn't look at their best"

"both looked to be beat by Dempsey"

So the loser is matched with Dempsey? What sense does that make?

"Gibbons was expected to win"

And didn't. Why exactly are expectations important?

Why exactly did they sign Gibbons, other than that he was a from the upper midwest and therefore "closer" to the site of the fight, Montana?

I would really like to get the low down on that.

 

"Dempsey was also smaller than Johnson when they fought."

box rec gives their weights as 181 for Dempsey and 170 for Johnson. Their heights as 6' 1" for Dempsey and 5' 11 1/2" for Johnson. Appears to me that Dempsey was bigger.

"the Dempsey that fought Johnson was living on the streets"

When he already had two fights in New York. I would like proof of this.

"self admittedly didn't know how to fight"

Okay.

"The last two fights Miske had Bright's disease."

When he fought Dempsey for the title. Possibly for the second Norfolk fight. This just seems to devalue Dempsey's KO of Miske. Even Dempsey said he knew Miske was sick for the title fight. Hard to believe Miske was sick all the way back to the Norfolk defeat in 1917.

"The idea that he never fought a black man again because of a few broken ribs is preposterous and unsubstantiated."

Certainly unsubstantiated, I admit. I was a bit nasty there. But preposterous? The bottom line is he assiduously drew the color line for the rest of his career.

The thing I admire most about Dempsey is he did what was necessary to get where he wanted to go. Stand behind a fallen fighter (Willard). Hit a guy as he was getting up (Firpo). Hit him in the groin and when he drops his hands, hit the exposed chin (Sharkey). Well, boxing, and life generally, isn't beanbag. Doing whatever you can get away with is what often makes a champ. The color line? The tough black fighters might have de-railed his career if he fought them. He didn't have to so he didn't. He was cleverer than Sullivan or Jeffries or Tunney in that while drawing the color line just as strongly as they did, unlike them he continually stated publicly that he really didn't believe in the color line.

I think even the slickest politician would have had trouble bettering that performance.