Who rates higher all time Jeffries or Dempsey?

Lol yes it does.

 

Please explain

 

So,according to you, he had plaster of paris bandages which obviously he must have come into the ring with, and they were carefully examined by Jeffries who found nothing wrong with them.How does that work? Dusting hand wraps with plaster of paris does not work because it does not set .this was proven by Sports Illustrated when they tried in on Cleveland Williams hands and then after a suitable interval had him punch the heavy bag.
The powder just disintegrated without solidifying properly.
Ive told you this before,do you have attention span problems?

Then, after the fight Fitz threw his gloves away,.If it was his bandages that were doctored why did he throw his gloves away?
"The test sports illustrated conducted in 1964, using the method described by Kearns, they wrapped the hands of heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams with the plaster wraps. After hitting the bag a few times the plaster crumbled. They concluded it would be more hazardess for the wearer's hands than to the opponent."

"In 1964 heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams tested the theory by coating his bandages with plaster of paris, toasting them for 35 minutes, and punching the heavy bag five times. The plaster of paris had disintegrated.
Nat Fleischer, later founder of The Ring Magazine, was there when Dempsey's hands were wrapped: "Jack Dempsey had no loaded gloves, and no plaster of paris over his bandages. I watched the proceedings and the only person who had anything to do with the taping of Jacks' hands was Deforest. Kearns had nothing to do with it, so his plaster of paris story is simply not true. Deforest himself said that he regarded the stories of Dempsey's gloves being loaded as libel, calling them 'trash' and said he did not apply any foreign substance to them, which I can verify since I watched the taping." Historian J.J. Johnston ended all discussion when he pointed out that "the films show Willard upon entering the ring walking over to Dempsey and examining his hands. That should end any possibility of plaster of paris or any other substance on his hands."

"And if the extent of Willard's injuries was exaggerated, as contemporary sources indicate, there is nothing to explain about Dempsey's hands. Furthermore, tests performed by Cleveland Williams, Hugh Benbow and Perry Payne (William's manager and trainer) for the magazine Boxing Illustrated proved that the plaster of Paris would have crumbled in the intense heat experienced on the day of the fight, rendering it useless for the purpose of inflicting damage or pain on Willard. "

Jeffries corner never made a move towards either Fitz's wraps or his gloves after the fight.I have the fight report.
Fitz threw his gloves into the crowd because he intended it to be his last fight.

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Yes, we really don't know something like that as the records back then are so spotty.

 

The fight getting delayed was not entirely down to Jeffries.

Fitzsimmons seems to bear some of the responsibility for it being delayed.

Jeffries seems to have gone for a fight with Ruhlin, after it became apparent that he would not reach terms with Fitz.

 

Fitz used to offer money to people who could last with him.

For example: April 28, 1892 "Fitzsimmons offered $50 to anyone who could last 4 rds
Source Matt Donnellson The Irish Champion Peter Maher "

Probably did it a lot during his career.

 

Two years? Fitz said he would fight Jeffries within 6 months.People say Johnson has excuses made for him!lol

To whose advantage do you think a 2 years delay would be, the 25 years old champion or the 36 years old challenger,smoking hot after just accomplishing what Jeffries couldn't do,ie, coming off two great ko wins over the two top contenders?
Do you think that after publicly challenging and embarrassing Jeffries into accepting a match the 36 ,nearly 37 years old Fitz, then decided I'm going to sit back for 2 years and do **** all ,then when I'm ring rusty and 39 years old,I'll challenge Jeffries again because I'll have more chance when I've been retired for two years and am also 2 years older!
Nobody has come up with a verified professional fight that Fitzsimmons engaged in between August24th 1900 and July25th1902 And I'm damn sure all the Jeffries fans here have looked bloody hard to find one!lol

 

The fight seems to have fallen through in part, because Fitz negotiated hard, and they could not come to terms.

It happens.

In practice, very few challengers will take a fight, on literally any terms that the champion proposes.

Fitz was probably making very nice money of his exhibitions, after his two spectacular knockout victories, so he perhaps felt that he could afford to wait.

Once Jeffries realized that he was not going to get a fight with Fitz any time soon, he started negotiations with Ruhlin.

 

The problem is there is no way of knowing what boxrec doesn't know. What kind of records were being kept back then? Who was even trying to keep records? Just because newspapers didn't cover a fight doesn't mean it didn't occur.

 

Adam Pollack did a ton of research on this issue and had this comment--

". . . Fitzsimmons had the opportunity to fight Jeffries within the next six months and declined, choosing instead to retire. This made it seem he really did not want to fight Jeffries. Jeff had already defeated Fitz, Sharkey, and Corbett in the span of a year, so it is a bit of a stretch to imply cowardice."

"The truth was that Jeff was still nursing his injury and was not in shape to fight on such short notice."

"Fitz had just fought twice and was nursing bruised hands, and did not really want to fight any time soon either, given his booming popularity and ability to make money on the road as well. It was in both of their financial interests to wait and build the fight, particularly as there was a glut of New York bouts leading up to the Horton law's termination."

In the Ring with James J Jeffries, page 432

"Bill Brady, still hopeful that Fitzsimmons would agree to fight Jeff after all, said that he would give Bob until December 1 to accept Jeff's challenge. Brady declared that Jeff's arm was back in shape and well enough again to stand vigorous training. Fitzsimmons responded by saying that Jeff and his manager could not use him for advertising purposes. Bob still claimed to be retired. Ruhlin was next in line after Fitzsimmons."

In the Ring with James J Jeffries, page 450

So it appears Fitz issued a challenge to an injured champion who was not in training for an almost immediate fight, but when later offered a shot at the champion, announced he was retired. It certainly makes it look to me like the fault for the Jeff-Fitz re-match not happening in 1901 was with Fitz, not Jeffries.

 

"You said Fitz was unbeaten for 9 years"

He was except for the Sharkey DQ. This is factually true.

"I showed that for 5 years and 3 months he did not fight anyone"

Fitz had 41 fights between the 1890 Hall fight and the first Jeffries fight. He had at least two fights every year from 1890 through 1897. Hard to see how he can be viewed as taking off over five years.

If your point is he didn't fight in 1898 and 1901 as he was making money in stage tours, okay. That is a fair point but it is only two years total out of the 16 calendar years we are talking about. It is indeed the two years prior to Fitz fighting Jeff. You make much of that. I don't think it that crucial. We just disagree.

This is the number of fights each year boxrec lists--

1890--5 (after the Hall fight)
1891--3
1892--10
1893--14
1894--3
1895--2
1896--2
1897--2
1898--0
1899--2
1900--4
1901--0
1902--3
1903--3
1904--1
1905--1

 

Mostly against a bunch of ****in bums

 

Thanks for your opinion. I will give it all the consideration it deserves.

 

The truth is we don't know many of the records of these fighters.

In 1893 Fitz KOed Phil Mayo, he has no other fights on boxrec so someone like Mr.Dago would assume he's a bum.

But then again we also have a Mayo (first name unknown) KOing Mysterious Billy Smith in 1894, not only that, but this Mayo was a heavyweight champion. If it's the same person Fitz's win would look somewhat more impressive.

 

You keep acting like people are buying your misrepresentations. We can see you.