Who rates higher all time Jeffries or Dempsey?

What did Wills do to deserve the number one ranking? According to your rankings only 5 of Wills opponents between 1919-1923 were ranked in the top 10. That was Fulton, Norfolk, Floyd Johnson, Charley Weinert, and Luis Firpo. Fulton and Firpo were Dempsey leftovers. Floyd Johnson was a can. Weinert was the leftovers of Firpo and Tunney (who Wills refused to fight).

 

Fitz wins over Sharkey, Ruhlin, and O'brien, ( Post 1899 ) to me are better than his wins over Maher or Corbett ( Pre 1899 )

In addition Fitz performed better in the 2nd fight with Jeffries. ( post 1899 ) The logical conclusion is the man was at the top of his game from 36-40. Are you saying this analysis is somehow wrong?

 

I haven't seen any evidence that it was a title eliminator. Dempsey commented that he'd like to fight the winner even if it was Wills but that's it. Dempsey had no control over the fight that was offered to him. Kearns had split with Rickard so they had to find another promoter. Floyd Fitzsimmons stepped in and fulfilled that role. Match making really had little to do with Dempsey apart from saying okay. Again, Kearns refused to make the Dempsey-Wills fight so I don't see how it could even be possible that the fight would be made.

Your beef is with Willard not Dempsey.

 

Miske beat two dangerous contenders in Renault and Gibbons, Wills never faced them.Fixed for the dying man?
After being stopped by Dempsey for the only time in his life Miske went on a tear, look at his results.
Wills didnt lose in1922 ? No he didnt ,who did he fight? A nearly blind Langford,two lightheavies in Clark and Norfolk a sparring partner and 3 nobodies!Wills was criticised for" living on a diet of well chewed meat,"and not taking chances against the iron of the division. Who are these
,"notable historians"?Explain to me why Wills merits the number one spot in 1921?

 

His win over Dempsey is better than his win over anyone else. Sharkey and Ruhlin were one dimensional. Especially Sharkey, he's the definition of a face first brawler. I don't hold those fighters in high regard.

Sure, Fitz performed better in the second Jeffries fight. Are you saying that Fitz was better at 39 than he was at say 27?

I can't believe I'm actually entertaining this argument. People are actually saying that a 40 year old was in better physical condition than he was in his 20s. You Jeffries fanatics are insane.

 

Despite the fact that there were no Ring Magazine rankings, there were in fact polls conducted among the public, and lists compiled by newspapers.

Every single one that I have seen had Wills listed as the most qualified challenger, but some of them were fairly luke warm about Greb.

I have seen lists that had Gibbons, and even Brennan ahead of him as a challenger, and some that omitted him altogether.

The fact that Dempsey went against the wished of his management to fight Gibbons, suggests that he felt under some pressure to do so.

 

I have highlighted in red the ones that I don't think were much better than what Dempsey had.

 

Was the version of Wills that Sharkey beat, still much better than anybody Dempsey beat?

I am not certain that he was by then.

 

As they say, that is what makes horse races.

the biggest question which arises is why Corbett in white but Fitz who beat Corbett in red.

 

"Dempsey went against the wishes of his management to fight Gibbons"

Jack Kearns was Dempsey's manager, and he negotiated the Gibbons fight. Considering this, I don't see how Dempsey "went against the wishes of his management" is accurate.

According to sources like Roger Kahn, Rickard wasn't involved because, according to Kahn, Rickard "didn't regard Gibbons either as a first-rate fighter or a good draw" and was instead grooming Firpo for a title shot.

Whatever, there was plenty of open skepticism about Gibbons as a contender, as the preview of the bout by the New York Times reveals.

My own take is that Gibbons wasn't that bad a contender, given the long history of second-tier contenders getting a shot at a heavyweight champion, but he also was not all that outstanding overall, and was coming off the loss to Greb.