Ray Arcel on Hagler - Hearns.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was interested in the rematch. Had the fight been at a slower pace which it would have been, it would have been a totally different fight and pace. And Hearns could have worked his jab and started to land his right later on, but he would have to have a fightplan,which Tommy didn't like. He liked to go for knockouts which really worked against him in two fights where the guys took his punches. I cannot say Hearns would win a rematch, but I think it would be the fight people expected the first fight to go. The one thing about Tommy which he lacked which Ray had was discipline to keep a fight plan going but Ray did not have Hearns firepower to get results so quickly. With Benitez, Hearns kept the fight plan of boxing going since he had a hurt right hand, which then meant he couldn't go for the knockout. In a rematch Hearns had to come in and jab Hagler and tie him up inside and use his jab and really the key to beating Hagler would have been his left hand not the right. The right would have had to be the finisher, but not the way to beat Hagler, since no punch would hurt Hagler that easily. The left would be the key to swelling up Hagler and getting Marvin to not think about the right. I think Hearns had a good chance to win the rematch more than most people, just on the slower pace and how easily it was for him to hit Hagler in the first fight. He didn't miss him at all.
     
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  2. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Would have been interesting to seen SRL fight Roldan & Mugabi, and Hearns fight Mugabi.
     
  3. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
  4. juppity

    juppity Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This was Hagler's Everest fight. After Hearns fight the Marvelous one had achieved everything he craved from boxing - fame , fortune, respect and legacy cemented. After the motivation was never the same.
     
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  5. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can't say I agree with Arcel here, and I'm a huge Hearns fan .. The "what if" for me in this fight was if Tommy didn't break his hand in the first. He did wobble Hagler but hags recovered from it pretty good and kept the heat on. Tommy took some big shots … but Tommy landed a bunch clean shots after the hand break but obviously didn't have the same effect … I really think he would have wobbled Hagler again..but I don't think Tommy could have stopped Hagler. In a rematch, even if Tommy tries to keep him on the end of his jab, I really think Marvin walks through again and does the same thing to Hearns
     
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  6. 80s champs

    80s champs Active Member Full Member

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    Im a big Hearns fan and it's amazing how that right hand lands,and it's always compared on the greats.There are a few that took the right and survived..Doug Dewitt for example.Then again maybe prime Hearns hit harder..
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    What part of Arcel's comments are you disagreeing with?
     
  8. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Hagler took more punishment at all. For Christ's sake, one was almost was KO'd and the other up dancing around. The same one which was up and dancing, also landed more punches; and also seems to have suffered less neurological damage based on their outward appearances. Nobody knows, but I'd side with Hearns took more damage.
     
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  9. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I always thought Hagler won the fight, but he took more damage with that single punch and some of the others, but that one punch. I never saw him stunned or rocked, and that first punch or second the one which came and hit him in the side of the left side of his head high, hurt himand his right leg dipped and he backed up and was jumping on his legs a little to get them back. He was rarely hurt, and I think when he was it affected him always but he recovered and won the fight when Tommy ran out of gas. He put his all out in this fight and took that punch, and I do think that punch did something to him. I always did, which is odd how it came up sort of. He was not hurt easily, and when he finally was I think he shook him to the core, but he won the fight and was determined. Hearns was hurt by his own exhaustion.

    Actually I have watched this fight so much I figured out how Hagler got the cut, which many people thought was a clash of heads. It was Hearns mouthpiece at 1:19 left in the 1st round. Total inadvertent. No ones fault. Hearns was tired and breathing out of his mouth, and he stuck out the mouthpiece to get air like I have seen him do in other fights, but since he was taller his mouth rested on Marvin's forehead. and Marvin and Tommy both threw rights to the body at the same time and somehow that put a lot of pressure on that point on Marvin's forehea.
     
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  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Put it this way i know who'd be keener to get back in the ring with each other and it ain't the lanky one....
     
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  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Incorrect. Hearns chased a rematch immediately and his match vs Schuler was an eliminator of sorts to fight the winner of Hagler vs Mugabi.

    Hearns chased rematches with his 3 conquerors with great abandon. The man for all his frail looks was an absolute warrior.
     
  12. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And you believe Hagler avoided him because he didn't want no part of Tommy, Hearns knew deep down Hagler was his superior and the result would have been the same.
     
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  13. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think my post speaks for itself how I feel about the fight and how I disagree with Arcel … How did Hagler get hurt more than Tommy? Ya Hagler took some big shots but he got wobbled once, took a couple of steps back, cleared the cobwebs, and went back to business.. Hurt fighters cover up, avoid, tie up , etc …. It's not a big mystery for me. It was the Hearns power vs the Hagler chin .. Hagler KO 3.. No need to walk on the other side Marvin , you win this 4 out of 5 times, imo
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The whole thing has gone over your head. All good.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The word he used was "punishment" which he backed up with Hearns not being able to take it like Hagler, basically. It's a controversial viewpoint but one he tried to reason.

    There's a bit going on. Hearns hit harder than Hagler that's for sure, Hearns took more punches that too if for sure and Hearns punches lost their sting very quickly as his legs were gone extremely eaqrly and the broken hand may have factored too. The latter punches Hagler walked thru were not the same as the initial barrage.
     
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