Calzaghe vs Ward break down of strengths? Very even across board

But Froch lost to a lesser Kessler, Froch arguably lost to Dirrell, was lucky against Taylor yet he beats a totally different animal in Calzaghe who is better in every way and department than Froch.

JC would have stopped Green who is D level at best, won every round off Abraham, he's already beaten Bika and Kessler and he'd beat Froch handily too.

Froch went life and death with a **** Kessler and GG who constantly hurt Froch yet couldn't put a dent in CEJ or Jack.

There is nothing exceptional about that run in the super 6, solid yes but nothing that Calzaghe wouldn't deal with.

 

It's fair enough to say he was done as a top level fighter because he clearly was, but he also clearly had enough left in the tank to still be competitive, and he proved that against Calzaghe and Thompson. I think the 1997/98 Eubank should not be mentioned in the same breath as the 2008 Roy Jones Jr as that version of Eubank still had it in him to pose a difficult challenge top teir fighters (of the standard of the division) while that version of Jones did not.

 

Yet, Joe never did. No run is close.

The blue print is clear in Joe's own words. "I'm not looking for tough fights....I know my limitations....it would take the crown jewels." You are rating Joe higher than even he did during his career.

The guy was awkward and had a good work rate. It would take a fighter with both the mental capacity to adjust to Joe's style and the physical tools to exploit it, but he was hardly unbeatable.

 

That is fair. Jones was beyond shot in 2008. Probably shouldn't have been licensed, definitely couldn't beat anybody of note and was a KO waiting to happen for anybody with an ounce of power.

Eubank was above that standard, but far from a top notch win as many of Joe's fans claim.

 

Well...not really. Hopkins after Calzaghe had far more success than Froch after Ward.

As a comparison.

Froch after losing to Ward:

• defeated Lucian Bute to become IBF Champion
• defeated Mikkel Kessler to become WBA (Regular) Champion, unifying the belts
• twice defeated George Groves who would go on to become WBA (Super) Champion.

Hopkins after losing to Calzaghe

• humilated the WBO, WBC, Ring and Lineal Middleweight Champion Kelly Pavlik
• defeated Jean Pascal to become WBC, the Ring and Lineal Light Heavyweight Champion
• defeated Tavoris Cloud to become IBF Light Heavyweight Champion
• defeated Beibut Shumenov to become WBA (Super) Light Heavyweight Champion, unifying with the IBF.

Ok, Hopkins lost to Dawson and Kovalev too, but Hopkins post-Calzaghe clearly has more noteworthy wins and picked up more belts than Froch post-Ward.

 

But he had beaten better fighters and fighters of similar ilk throughout his career.

Not one of the fighters you mentioned beats him, in fact he'd already beaten Kessler who was the best of the opponents he faced in the super6.

 

Joe had not faced a string of consistently better fighters. You can hang your hat on Joe's win over Kessler, but his resume as thinner than Kiera Knightly beyond that.

Plus, you are completely overlooking Andre's vastly superior run at 175; the loss to Kovalev included. When guys actually test themselves, they generally take a loss. (And yes, I know the judges handed Ward that fight, but I'm being honest).

Joe was more interested in protecting his 0.

 

Wards run at 175 wasn't vastly superior at all....

Smith jr (a Fat middleweight )
Brand ( short fat super middleweight top 50 type fighter)
Kovalev x 2 ( in which he got a gift in their first fight and won the second in a highly dubious way).

Calzaghe beat 11 former or current or future world champions. His resume is not thin especially coming from someone who thinks he'd take an L to the likes of Green/AA/Froch etc.

Wards best win at 168 is a Calzaghe left over, his second best win couldn't beat a past prime version of Wards best win.....you do the math.

 

Kovalev >>> old ass Hopkins. 175 is clearly Ward's. In fact, Kovalev was a far more dangerous opponent than Joe ever faced.

The math equates to Joe fighting a ton of old guys and C level fighters, most of whom accomplished nothing of note in the sport after fighting Joe.

Joe's best win is the same guy Ward utterly destroyed shortly thereafter, his second best win is a 40 something, faded version of Hopkins, and his third best win is who? Pick your C level or shot fighter for yourself, it doesn't matter.

 

Who was Kovalevs standout win?

 

You just aren't going to stop, are you?

Joe was an interesting guy. He just wasn't a world beater. Appreciate him for what he was, there's no need to try and pump him up into something he wasn't, or even aspired to be.

I'm not jumping down another time drain. I'm at work.

 

How's it going mate?

I always love reading your posts, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

How did Bernard have far more success?

In my honest opinion, Carl's wins were more significant.

He absolutely blasted Lucian Bute.

He beat a version of Kessler who was still a good fighter.

He knocked out a very good fighter in George Groves, who's still a force at the weight.

Bernard's win over Kelly was a fantastic performance, but it was at 170 pounds. Kelly had no business being at that weight.

The Pascal win was great due to Bernard's age. We have to give him huge credit for his longevity. But as an opponent, although he's tough, Pascal is limited.

The same applies to Cloud and Shuminov. They were decent fighters. But the wins were only impressive due to Bernard's age. In terms of quality, I don't see how they were better than Bute, Kessler and Groves.

Carl had the more noteworthy wins.

 

apparently, you needing to keep saying it

 

your other hero Trumpet seems to think its great.

 

In a fight, Joe is going to get cracked trying to get in position. Over and over. He certainly isn't hurting Ward and I don't see him landing more than one or two slaps per combination, however few of those he would be able to get off. Ward would smoke him on the inside. Joe's resume is underrated by many but I truly feel Ward would beat him and it wouldn't be all that difficult for him.