Would you consider Ali an embarrassment to boxing after manilla

Easy SweetPea!
If you're talking Patterson he didn't 'hand pick' his fights, that was Cus's doing.
And in Floyd's final fight (almost 38!) he had Ali even after six rounds. Don't give me the Ali was clowning c r a p o l a. He was getting tagged! What a swan song for Patterson! It was the "Devil Green" head butt (two years earlier) that tore open Floyd's eye that Ali exploited. IMO Floyd wouldn't have won that fight but I'll guarantee you it would have went the 12 round distance with Floyd going all out in the 12th for the victory rocking Ali along the way. IMO that would have given his resume an enormous shot to his legacy!

 

Go watch tennis? I've been watching boxing since the years we're discussing.

You seem to keep going back to the two George Foreman fights you saw on YouTube.

I'm done with you.

 

Floyd Mayweather.

 

What was embarrassing was the casual attitude Ali treated a title he worked long and hard to regain. He barely trained for almost every post Foreman fight. He often came in overweight. He openly tried to steal fights with clowning. He did not give the fans their monies worth with best efforts against Lyle, Bugner and Young. He fought terrible fighters in Cooperman and Dunn, he performed poorly and got very questionable decisions against Young and Norton but had zero interest in rematching them. Essentially he felt he was bigger than the game, bigger than the title and did what he felt like. It's not that he fought on near even levels against name fighters while so poorly prepared it's that he gave far less of himself once he regained it other than Manila and it was disappointing. One would think after having a title taken away out of the ring and such a long road back he'd treat being champion with pride and not entitlement.

 

Doesn't really say much for the era then does it. It baffles me that the 70s is held in such high esteem. It was a very good era for heavyweight boxing for the first half, maybe the best, but what proceeded in the second half, or post Manila, if you want to call it that, really was nothing short of tragic. I didn't live through the era, so my views are not based on any emotions, but simply how I see it, with no strings attached. I gotta back @Unforgiven and @ETM on this one, they hit the nail on the head.

 

The thing about the 70s is that its rated highly by people of that generation. Fight fans of other generations generally have a much lower opinion of that era. It was also dominated by a guy who peaked in the 1960s. Which would seem to imply the 60s were a better era since someone from that era is generally rated higher than anyone from the following generation.

 

Also, what criteria are we using for greatness? Against todays top contenders many 70s heavyweights would be giving away 30-50 pounds in weight. I'm skeptical they can prevail against guys so much bigger who are also relatively skilled and athletic. Joe Frazier for example would be conceding roughly 40 pounds and 7 inches in height against Joshua.

 

Ali acted like a real @ss in the ring vs Holmes before the fight started. He's lucky Larry took some mercy on him.

Yea, post Shavers, Ali acted like a Wrestler and out of shape showman. His third act of his career wasn't a good one.

 

Anyone else come here for the provocative thread title?

 

3 1/2 years of Ali's prime was stolen from him for purely political reasons. He refused to he indicted on religious grounds & got penalized . While a certain William Jefferson Clinton fled to England to avoid the draft His punishment ?? They made him President of the United States

 

Ferdy Pacheco his own doctor said Ali was showing all the signs of Parkinsons BEFORE the third Frazier fight. He should have retired then

 

There's no doubt that Muhammad went quickly downhill after Manila but he was only an embarassment to HIMSELF and not to boxing,imo,in the last TWO bouts that he had post '75. The first eight were simply that of a declining but still competitive fighter.

As other posters have stated,calling Ali an embarassment to BOXING is wrong.

 

Each to their own opinion but I've watched and listened to a lot of Ali's interviews throughout his career but can't spot any obvious health problems prior to Manila.

 

This is a fair assessment, I think.

I feel pretty certain that he gave his best effort against Norton as well, but otherwise he didn't prepare as you should when defending the richest prize in sport.

Did this make him an embarrassment to boxing? I guess it's up for what you put in the term. But one should in that case be consistent and name Jeffries, Johnson, Willard, Dempsey, Frazier, Holmes, Bowe, Foreman and Fury embarrassments as well. Bigger such in many cases. So it's all about where you put the bar.

 

Well, let's not forget that two 70's HW (Foreman and Holmes) did quite well in the 90's and one of today's top contenders, Povetkin, would be close to average size for the top fighters of the mid to late 70's.

I'm inclined to agree with you, though, that the 70's fighters would find it harder today. But the main thing about the 70's is that you had three champion's that rose above the rest and all faced each other. You can't say that about many eras.

It also didn't hurt that the main contenders faced each other as well.