Could A Prime Wlad Outbox A Prime Ali

NoBoxingIQ. None at all.

This has to be a joke.

 

I always make the mistake of assuming people putting Ali in fantasy matchups are referring to the man instead of the legend.

Of course nobody stands a chance against the latter, and how could they? Ali the Legend went something like 150-0 with 151 knockouts and never got hit.

 

No more silly than to compare an old Wlad whose wife was on suicide watch struggling with Fury, to a prime, focused Wlad. And certainly not more silly than Herol's suggestion that Henry Cooper was much better than Wlad.

 

Just that one time against Cooper, and that was because Liz Taylor flashed some cleavage, WWE style. It wuz a setup.

 

Do you know how unpopular that would make Lennox if he said i'd smash Ali ? You remember the outcry when Mayweather said it?? He probably is the greatest, but that's not h2h..

 

It was a huge part of his game, because he had zero inside game

 

It's difficult for me to envision how a prime Ali does against a young Wlad since he never fought anyone remotely like him and lacked the resilience that he had later in his career. I can still see him winning, due to his phenomenal speed and natural talent, but it may be the case that the older version ironically does a bit better here; he was a lot more adept at weathering punishment and wearing guys out, and Wlad back then had major pacing problems.

Anyway, I don't think Ali would choose to fight him like that, but rather that he'd be forced to if he finds himself under fire. It's unrealistic to expect him to dance and dodge every punch Wlad throws at him, given the speed and accuracy with which Wlad would be attacking him, so his only other option would be to try to fight fire with fire and knock him out early.

I won't rule anything out with Ali as he was a master at winning fights against the odds, but he wasn't impossible to beat, and Wlad back then had the speed, size, and ferocity to give almost any lighter punching heavyweight problems.

 

I think that was the case of an older fighter who'd been so used to doing things his own way for years suddenly being confronted with a situation outside of his comfort zone and being unable to adapt. Wlad's never been the most fluid fighter in the world, but he was a lot looser and more willing to take chances earlier in his career. That gradually began to erode as he found his niche and exploited it, becoming nigh unbeatable by most fighters but becoming more entrenched in his rinse and repeat style that required him to be in control of things almost from the opening bell.

That Wlad would certainly be prime target for Ali's mind games, but I think it's a little unfair to pit that version against an anywhere near prime Ali, since a large part of why Wlad couldn't let his hands go against Fury was that he was being out-speeded and out-thought as a result of diminished reactions and overall explosiveness. Give him just a touch more speed and sharpness and that whole fight changes.

 

Who are the other two?

 

Imma guessing Frazier and Norton

 

Whilst I'm not ignorant enough to think that his personal issues couldn't have affected his preparation for Tyson, I really don't think that was the sole issue for his performance.

Tyson intimidated him with his confidence, his size, and his speed.

Wlad had spent a decade fighting inferior guys, who he could clinch and lean on etc.

In his fight with Tyson, he had no plan B. He didn't change his approach. He didn't step on the gas. It was just rinse and repeat. Every time Tyson feinted, it made him hesitant.

I have no reason to believe that Wlad would have fought Tyson in a different manner, had they have met earlier.

The issue he had was a psychological one, not a physical one. He looked much better against Joshua, despite being older with 18 months of inactivity.

In 2011, we saw him fight Haye. Haye had disrespected Wlad's family with his distasteful pre-fight antics. According to Vitali, they tossed a coin to decide who would fight Haye. Wlad won, and he was supposed to be going out to make a statement. Yet we saw an incredibly cautious Wlad who wouldn't put his foot on the pedal, even when Haye was trapped up against the ropes. And that's because ever since those early knockout defeats, he became a safety first fighter.

After the Joshua fight, we had to endure months on here where fans were saying things such as: "The version of Wlad who fought Joshua would have beaten Fury"

It was nonsense. The version of Wlad that fought Joshua, couldn't have existed against Tyson Fury, because of: Tyson Fury.

Although Ali obviously didn't possess Tyson's size, he possessed the same mentality. He possessed the same level of confidence. He possessed the same kind of agility. When those 2 things are put together, Wlad is presented with a huge challenge. He becomes intimidated. And that's because he was psychologically scarred from those early defeats. The earlier versions of Wlad would easily have beaten his competition that he faced with Manny in his corner, without having to resort to just 2 main shots and a clinch.

I've watched his career in it's entirety. The versions of Wlad who lost to Sanders etc, would have been far more dangerous to Ali than the versions who fought the likes of Haye.

 

Wlad of the Femi fight knocks out Fury. Prime Wlad definitely knocks out Fury.

 

So when Wladimir Klitschko is 39 year old and loses to Tyson Fury, somehow age doesn't play as much of a factor.

But when Ali, Tyson, Holyfield and bunch of other past 'heavyweight' champions lose way before age 39, then age is somehow much more of a factor?

When will people realize that when an athlete reaches their late 30's, they will no longer be at their very best? And that losses by that point, has no bearing on how they'd perform if they were younger?

Usain Bolt has become slower as he has aged. Mo Farah has started losing as he has aged. Michael Phelps started declining and stopped winning as much as he has aged. Football players nearly always retire before age 40. Olympians stop winning any gold medals in athletic sports when they reached age 39 and so forth so on.

This double standard applied to only Wladimir Klitschko and not to other athletes / boxers is ridiculous.

If we're going to apply this standard and claim that age had not much to do with Wlad's loss to Tyson Fury. Then let's also apply the same standard to Mike Tyson's much more embarrassing losses to the likes of Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. or to Ali's more embarrassing losses to the likes of Leon Spinks. Or to Evander Holyfield's more embarrassing losses to Larry Donald and so forth so on.

We can't have it both ways!

 

It was a big part of his game when he'd slowed down.

Let's credit Ali with some intelligence here. He would never have used a strategy where he'd have tried to have clinched a guy of Wlad's size and strength.

Look at the tactics he used against Liston and Foreman.

Ali was one of the bravest and most intelligent fighters that we've ever seen.

 

Good points.

I enjoyed reading this.

It would have been very intriguing.