Some posters are making so much of the alleged color line in the 1940's that I did some research in The Ring annual ratings (because they are available) to judge the validity of this point of view. I divided contenders into AB (American black), AW (American white), FW (foreign white), and FB (foreign black) and listed them in the year from 1946 to 1955 when they first appeared in the ratings during this era to first get an overview-- 1946 AB-----Louis, Ray, Walcott, Murray, Sheppard AW----Mauriello, Bettina, Baksi, Kahut, Maxim FW----Woodcock 1947 AB-----Thompson AW----Comiskey, Gomez, Muscato 1948 AB-----Charles, Bivins, Payne AW-----Savold, Flynn, Valentino, Beshore 1949 AB-----0 AW----Oma, LaStarza FW-----0 FB------Agramonte 1950 AB-----Henry, Baker AW-----Layne, Marciano FW-----Gardner 1951 AB-----0 AW-----0 FW-----Sys, Brion, Williams 1952 AB-----Dunlop AW----0 FW----Neuhaus 1953 AB-----Harrison, Satterfield, Wallace AW-----Bucceroni FW-----Co-kell FB------Valdes, Walls 1954 AB-----Jackson, Slade AW-----Norkus 1955 AB-----Moore,Holman, Summerlin, Johnson AW-----Pastrano So the totals are American blacks-----21 American whites-----19 Foreign whites--------7 Foreign blacks---------3 total blacks-----24 total whites-----26 end of part one. continued below
Part two--the next step is the championship fights. There were 22 heavyweight championship fights between 1946 and 1955. * means fighter won the title. 1946 Louis-Conn Louis-Mauriello 1947 Louis-Walcott 1948 Louis-Walcott 1949 Charles*-Walcott Charles-Lesnevich Charles-Valentino 1950 Charles-Beshore Charles-Louis Charles-Barone 1951 Charles-Oma Charles-Walcott Charles-Maxim Charles-Walcott* 1952 Walcott-Charles Walcott-Marciano* 1953 Marciano-Walcott Marciano-LaStarza 1954 Marciano-Charles Marciano-Charles 1955 Marciano-Co-kell Marciano-Moore so 44 men were fighting in the 22 fights. 27 were black. 17 white. in the 22 fights, 11 of the challengers were American blacks, 10 were American whites, 1 was a foreign white. Seven fights were black on black. Two white on white. Charles fought 13 fights, going 9-4 Walcott fought 8 fights, going 2-6 Marciano fought 7 fights, going 7-0 Louis fought 5 fights, going 4-1 Conn, Mauriello, Lesnevich, Valentino, Beshore, Barone, Oma, Maxim, LaStarza, Co-kell, Moore one fight each, going 0-11 But, of the 15 men who fought for the title, 4 were black, and 11 white. Conclusion--black fighters were controlling the championship for the most part, so the "color line" position is an extreme stretch. Did some white fighters get shots who didn't deserve them. Yes, although this does not include Conn, Mauriello, and LaStarza, who were the number one contenders. Who were the men who didn't get a shot? Who was most deserving and was frozen out? Ray--He lost to Walcott who got a shot the same year. Valdes--Ditto. He lost to Moore who got a shot the same year. Layne--has the best case I think for being frozen out when he should have gotten a shot. Walcott got two shots in 1951 after losing to Layne. Henry and Baker--were definitely better than a few of Charles' challengers who got shots, but hard to see either being at the top of the line for a championship challenge. Baker was KO'd by Henry and then lost enough to drop completely out of the ratings before making a comeback. Henry was coming on but then lost to Johnson and Moore. Satterfield--definitely dangerous, but a win one lose one type all the way through his career. Looking at the champs Louis--fought four #1 contenders, two with Walcott. Little to criticize I think. Charles--a lot to criticize. Louis made sense. Perhaps a pass on Maxim as he was the light-heavyweight champion and had done quite a bit at heavy. But why Walcott twice over Layne? And the rest seem to be questionable choices. Walcott--nothing to criticize. Two defenses against #1 contenders. Marciano--Five defenses against #1 contenders. He should have defended against Valdes rather than Don C, but this strikes me as minor as he did defend against Moore who beat Valdes. Color line?--I don't see it playing any role at all. Even Charles with his questionable defenses is more vulnerable for not defending against Layne than for avoiding black contenders.
No. Then you would have to name the black contenders and there were a very limited number. I think we went over that with Franklin. And 1943-1945 was the war with no defenses against anyone.
Ed, This is ground breaking type of work here. Out of those groups can you count the number of title shots received? You could are the FB's, or foreign blacks had it the toughest. No one is giving them a chance ( Valdes ranked #1 for a short while ), and the stigma against this group from a USA boxing point of view lasted until Lennox Lewis proved himself over many years. I could remember back late 90's thinking Lewis was an all-time great in the making. Few then bought it. Now they do. The foreign whites were not exactly a welcome group either. I think the scoring in Louis vs Godoy 1 was odd and based on the films its a very close fight. They wanted Carnera out of boxing ( Moving him to his own Super Dreadnaught division of 250 or more pounds ), and feared if Schmeling won the title, he wouldn't give an American a title shot. In the early 1990's, when the iron curtain fell, this group, in my opinion, experienced a high amount of antipathy that really did not end until Wlad was near retirement. You still see it today. In present day its the FB's and FW's that tend to be the best. The top AB's are in short supply and the top AW's are an almost unmentionable group. Boxing fans in the 1930's and 40's wouldn't be too happy today.
I think we had the Mob Line more than anything. How many Ike Williams type scenarios played out to prospects on the rise we will never fully know. And did this happen more to Black prospects because they were seen as more controllable? There were some very complicated dynamics at play. I would be lying if I said I understood it all.
I'm calling for DNA analyses on all top ten ranked Hw's from 1919 to the present. Can't settle this issue till we get the results.
I agree with almost all of what you say... but do you think it a mere coincidence that guys like Elmer Ray, Bert Lytell, Burley, Hardwick, et. al. didn't get title shots?
It was not a coincidence, but the color line was not drawn against any of these men in principle, as it was against say Jack Johnson, or Harry Wills. It might be simply that these men got a worse deal due to poorer backing/connections, which of course would have been due to their color. There is also such a thing as a semi duck in my mind. That is where you are know that you might have to face a contender eventually, and would do it if you have to, but wait to see if another contender might remove them for you. A semi duck can usually be justified in hind sight.
