Gene Tunney vs Rocky Marciano

Smith weighed 166lb

Gibbons and Carpenter both weighed only 173 and 179

I stand by my statement, Tunney chin was not tested enough against heavyweight punchers

Regarding the Dempsey fights. Jack fought Tunney coming off a long layoff and wasn’t in prime condition..certainly nowhere near the condition a peak Marciano would bring. Tunney was excellent, superb in the Dempsey fights. I doubt jack ever beats him, but jack was not in condition as he gassed quickly.

Marciano fought a highly skilled boxers in Walcott Charles Moore who likely hit harder than Tunney and were certainly just as skilled defensively, and could counterpunch just as well. Marciano went 5-0 against these men. They didn’t have the legs of Tunney, but Marciano would adjust as he was great at cutting off the ring and fought very effectively from the crouch. I agree Tunneys movement would be a stiff challenge for Marciano.

Tunney moves extremely well but his biggest flaw was he kept his hands very low. Another fighter, harry kid Matthews, fought with a similar style to Tunney Albeit at a much lower level..Marciano set him up with two beautiful left hooks from his crouch as he was dancing out of range and knocked him dead. The st Paulys style did not work well against rocky. Marciano is going to catch Tunney with a big clean shot at some point...and when he stuns Tunney, it’s going to slow gene down. Marciano will throw 100 punches until he goes down...even if he doesn’t go down the damage has been done. Gene is slowing down...Marciano will continue to roll off that momentum and throw high volume punches and land enough clean shots to take the rounds. Marciano is capable of a decision win. Tunney has been outpointed before by a swarmer.

Tunney didn’t fight on the inside. He just clinched. Marciano was an expert at getting out of clinches, and fighting on the inside. Marciano would be throwing bombs at Tunney and every time he hurt him, it would wear down and slow down Tunney even more. We saw in rounds 6, 10, 15 against Charles, Marciano wore him down so much from the beginning of the fight, and he just smothered him to death in those rounds. Charles was lucky to make it to the final bell. The decision was never in doubt. Most Ringsiders had Charles winning only 5 rounds. After round 6, Charles won only one round. Marciano dominated.

 

Walcott, Charles and Moore (PARTICULARLY MOORE) didn't box anything like Gene Tunney.

Not remotely.

I know you've seen them fight. Don't be lazy.

How on earth did Archie Moore with his cross armed defense and his slow shuffle forward, bobbing and weaving, fight ANYTHING like Gene Tunney?

Seriously?

Styles make fights. Two fighters can both be skilled and their styles can be absolutely nothing alike.

 

Right, which is why Marciano has no chance to outpoint him. Because Rocky's not outboxing him when Tunney is circling the ring for three minutes a round throwing hard jabs and combinations.

 

Very compelling matchup. Tunney has the style and skills and movement to beat Marciano. I just think no way does Tunney coast to an easy decision win. Rocky would make his life hell in there. Rocky was a beast.

 

But he ended up on the inside a lot in clinches. Marciano was an expert at getting out of clinches and hammering home punches...Tunney would find himself in clinches all the time but he never experienced a fighter who could manipulate getting out of it like rocky. Marciano was great at cutting off the ring, and Tunneys very low hands means he’s getting caught by some big Marciano Suzy Q rights and left hooks out of his crouch. Once rocky lands once on Tunney, Tunney will freeze, slow down, and rocky will hammer away at him with 100 punches. Tunney might stay on his feet but he loses the round

 

One official judge had it 8-6-1. (If ONE ROUND of the 15 rounds was given to Charles instead of Rocky, it's a draw on that card.)

Another judge gave Rocky EIGHT rounds, Charles five and scored two even.

Winning eight of 15 rounds on TWO cards isn't dominating or clearly outpointing anyone. Eight out of 15 is the bare minimum of winning rounds.

The fight was a tossup on the OFFICIAL cards. And nobody seen all 15 rounds since that night.

So, let's just say, based on that, I'm not saying Rocky easily outpoints Gene Tunney at his best.

The only time Rocky won decisions, the came against LaStarza (and it was a draw that went to supplemental scoring), Charles (which was as close to a toss-up as it gets) and Rocky outpointed Willis Applegate, Don Mogard and Ted Lowry.

Like I said, Rocky either wins by KO (which is possible), or he loses the 15-round decision (which is likely).

Rocky Marciano IS NOT OUTBOXING a prime Gene Tunney.

Sorry, I can buy a lot of things. But I'm not buying that.

 

On the contrary, Jack Dempsey was EXCELLENT at punching while clinching. He wrote boxing instructional manuals on doing it. He was the master at it.

And he won ONE round out of 20. Because Tunney didn't stand there like Archie Moore did with Rocky and let him pound away.

 

Tunneys style was very predictable but it worked. He telegraphed his shots often, by exaggerating a dip before he would load up. I think Walcott and Moore despite their slower legs, were bigger punchers and had more unpredictable styles. Marciano would figure out Tunney quickly. It would just be a matter of if Marciano could land a big one to hurt Tunney and change the momentum. I think he would

“Good luck with that”

Marcianos knockout record is as impeccable as anyone in ring history. If anyone can knockout Tunney, Marciano can. And gene didn’t exactly share the ring with many dangerous heavyweight punchers nor did he take a lot of big punches from heavyweights.

“Scorecards”

Marciano won a lot of rounds vs many very good boxers. In his prime, the only one who was up on him was Walcott I. How would tunney have done vs Walcott? Very close fight

If Tunney fights marcianos schedule at heavyweight, how many losses does he pick up?

“Charles almost stopped him in rematch”

Where’s your source? Marciano was ahead 7 rounds to 0 on the scorecards and despite the nasty cut from an elbow, the referee was on record saying he was not close to stopping the fight. I have the quote.

 

As good a post on the subject as you'll read.

Again, Tunney fought a handful of fights at heavy, mostly against B level opposition. You can say that Marciano's best opponents were over the hill but ill take old Charles and Walcott and Louis over Gibbons in his final fight and that hype job Carpentier at the end of his line.

 

Where is my source? Rocky was given one more round by his corner or they were stopping the fight because of his destroyed nose.

How does a guy with the name SuzieQ not know that?

And the "nasty cut" (the tip of his nose was split in half) required plastic surgery to repair.

 

You're HALF right !




(No way does Tunney hear the final bell)

 

You’re the first person I have ever seen refer to Charles Marciano I as toss up on scorecards. I have the full audio round by round, I also have round by round description, 10 different ringside scorecards...not one ringsider thought Charles won that fight. The decision was never in doubt.

The Associated Press scorecard had Rocky far in front 10-4-1.

Rounds 6, 10, and 15 on film pretty much verify every official report on the fight...that after round 6, Marciano completely dominated and won 9 of the 10 final rounds. Three judges scorecards reflected this. One judge had Charles winning the first 4 rounds, then giving Charles only 1 round and 1 even of the remaining.

“Winning 8 out of 15 on two cards”

Or you could look at it, Charles won only 5 rounds out of 15 on two cards”

Ap report had Marciano winning 10 rounds and Charles only 4.


Judge Harold Baines 8-6-1 scorecard is closer than any of the 10 ringsiders scorecards I have. Seems to me like that scorecard was giving Charles the complete benefit of the doubt.

 

Not true. It’s a myth that has been debunked 5 years ago.

 

I don’t have the book on me at the moment, but if anyone wants to open their copy of the book rock of his times by Russell Sullivan...there is a quote from ringsider doctor...to sum it up he says he was never close to stopping the fight despite the cut.

Actually just found it


Rocky Marciano, Rock of his times, by Russell Sullivan.
"Much of this is in fact legend. The cut was bad for sure, but few at ringside that night reported that the bout was in danger of being stopped. Even more significant, the man who had the authority to stop the fight, Dr. Alxandar Schiff, the ringside physician- revealed several days later, that he had no intention of calling a halt to the proceedings."I wouldn't have stopped it for the cut. This was a championship fight. Even though in twentynine years of treating boxers, I have never seen the nostril torn right through, I knew Rocky was not too hurt to continue with a cut of that type."

Page 231.


The “Marciano was only given one more round” was a legend that grew over time spread by that quack Bert sugar, but in reality it was a myth that has been debunked

 

Dempsey was coming off a 3 year layoff in his 30s..his conditioning was subpar and he gassed quickly. His reflexes and timing were off, and his workrate wasn’t anything close to resembling a prime Marciano. Tunney did a great job with what he had in front of him, but a prime Marciano is a different animal. Watch Marciano-Charles I and you will see Marciano a master at getting himself out of clinches, against a very good boxer too.

If Marciano can take Moore’s best and beat him down, he certainly can take Tunneys best. Can Tunney take marcianos best? Tunney would have had his hands full vs Archie. Tunney never beat anyone at 175 resembeling an Archie Moore. Their resumes are not even comparable.