Carl Froch sets the record straight on who would have won if he fought Calzaghe

BTW Loudon in 2007 when Joe decided to checkout as the Man @ 168 Andre was around an 12-0-0 guy , WHY would Joe go to Oaktown to fight an inexperienced guy like Ward ?

 

I wouldn't have expected him to.

 

Yea I apologise I thought you had suggested he ducked Andre in an earlier post , my bad but in the post you're correct there is no guarantee he would have fought Andre as Andre if I recall was a few fights off getting into the WBO mandatory position and by then Joe had fought Bika his last mandatory , and Pete Manfreado ( who incidently we talked to prior to his fight with Joe on ESB one afternoon ) as Peter was a MASSIVE name in the states after the contender tv show to get his name more known in the states prior to fighting Bernard .

 

Peter seems a good guy and I don't want to disrespect him. But in my opinion, his fight with Joe was embarrassing. He should never have been in the ring with Joe. And the fact that Joe needed him to gain U.S. exposure speaks volumes of how Joe handled his career.

Regarding Ward, I was suggesting that Joe may not have wanted to have fought him even if they'd been around at the same time. And that opinion is based on me watching Joe's career unfold, and looking at his chosen path and the various comments that he made throughout the years, both in interviews and what he wrote in his autobiography etc. He was a great fighter, but he was never overly ambitious.

 

Prime roided to the gills Jones you mean.

 

And only Michalczweski or Jones would have been worth the move up.

And for the record Johnson beat 4 of the named fighters you mention....couldn't cut it at 168 but was top tier at 175.

Same with Reggie Johnson, couldn't cut it at 160, jumped straight to 175vand became a champion.

Rochigiani had already lost to Eubank and Nunn was old and a name only.....who exactly was Nunns best victories at 175?

 

Only Roy and Dariusz would have been worth the move up?

Ha!

What, considering who Joe fought instead?

Considering that he had to starve himself to fight the likes of Veit for less than a £1m purse?

You're talking absolute nonsense.

Nobody is saying that those guys I listed were unbeaten killers, but they were better than the majority of Joe's opponents at SMW.

Yes, Glen was a force at LHW in 2004. But would he have beaten Roy and Dariusz etc had he have been in the mix with them years earlier? Highly unlikely.

Reggie Johnson couldn't cut it at MW? He beat Collins, and he had controversial decisions go against him, which included many people believing he'd beaten Toney. Reggie was a good fighter. And Joe fighting and beating him at LHW would easily have been a top 5 win for him at the time. And the same applies to guys like Griffin, Hill and Tarver etc.

Yes, Roch had already lost to Eubank, and Nunn was faded. But they still would have been better than most of Joe's opponents.

Do you want me to put Joe's opponents under the microscope?

Brewer - Knocked out at MW by B and C class fighters before becoming a top 3 ranked SMW.

Reid - One of Joe's best wins, yet lost to Malinga before he fought Joe, then lost to Branco straight afterwards.

Veit - A guy who Joe knocked out in a round in 2001, yet a guy who he had to face again a few years later.

I could go on and on.

For the majority of Joe's reign, the LHW division was stronger.

 

And I could do the exact same regarding said fighters at 175.

You are like the anti bailey

 

We've already done an in-depth comparison about 6 months ago.

You only want to concentrate on one period of Joe's reign.

Again, for the majority of his reign, the LHW division was stronger. That's not to say that it was stacked with great fighters, as it wasn't. But there were more talented fighters there. To deny that is just ignorant.

 

Talented in your opinion.

Again you had a guy in Harding who beat bothGriffin and Tarver then lost to RJJ, Tarver and Johnson.

Then you have Reggie Johnson, lost twice to Castro....put 15lbs on and wins a title in his next 2 fights.

Nunn was done at 175. Great fighter? Of course but again WHO was his best victories?.....same withRochigiani.

Tarver was hit and miss as well.

Did 175 have the more popular USA names...of course but was they better that is debatable.

 

Talented in my opinion? That should be anyone's opinion who lived through the era.

Once again, I've never classed all of those fighters that I listed as being great. Because apart from Roy, they weren't. And after Roy and Dariusz had faded and we saw the emergence of Kessler etc, the pendulum had swung. But from the start of Joe's reign up until the the early-mid 00's, the LHW division contained better fighters than the SMW division.

Yes, guys like Tarver were hit and miss. Yes, Griffin won and lost. But those guys were better than almost all of the guys who Joe fought within that period.

Regarding Reggie, I think you've been looking on BoxRec. Did you see the Castro fights? Did you see the Toney fight? Did you see the Guthrie fight when he moved up? Yes, he also won and lost like Tarver and Griffin.

Regarding Nunn, yes, he'd seen better days.

Hill had also seen better days. Again, none of them were great fighters. But they were still very good fighters, all of a similar level, and a step up from most of Joe's opponents from that period.

This is who Joe fought from the period that I'm focusing on:

Eubank
Sobot
Gimenez
Reid
Thornberry
Starie
Sheika
Woodhall
Veit
McIntyre
Brewer
Jiminez
Pudwell
Mitchell
Mkrtchan

Even though he didn't get the opportunity to fight them, we can also add:

Ottke
Liles
Graham

Now, please explain how the above group of fighters were better than the following group, as a whole:

Roy
Dariusz
Hill
Griffin
Toney
Roch
Nunn
Reggie
Woods
Harding
Tarver

Joe should have been in that mix instead of defending a lightly regarded belt against those other opponents that I've listed.

Moving up to LHW would clearly have been worthwhile. Especially considering that he struggled like hell to make weight, and he obviously couldn't have known at the time that the division would eventually hot up with the emergence of Kessler etc.

 

See this is what I don't get , WHY if you're fighting weight is 168lbs should you move up ? Calzaghe wanted to be the 168lbs Champion of the world when he set out and he achieved that without a shadow of a doubt , by the end of his career he was THE MAN at S/Middle recognised by the 95% of the boxing world from Sugar Ray to Manny Steward also as a bonus he retired unbeaten, undamaged and a multi millionaire the only reason I see people slating the fella on the internet I can see is pure jealously, my view on Froch is he did as well as he could with his talent and retired a world title holder , undamaged with mega bucks , good luck to the fella .

 

Why should he have moved up earlier?

1. Because he literally had to starve himself to make SMW.

2. There were better fighters at LHW, most notably, the consensus no.1 P4P fighter: Roy Jones.

Why would a great fighter strip himself down from 196 pounds to defend a lightly regarded belt against mainly B-C class fighters, when he could have fought better competition at a more comfortable weight?

 

did he really at the age of 16 aspire to rule a division that had only just been invented for boxing when he was that age? Thats division would be seen as a soft touch by people growing up then.

seems a poor aspiration, or are you making that up?


but you are right he did win his first recognised smw title, at 34. Just seems a LLOOOONG time to wait to fulfil an ambition that sounds like one he didnt even have as a young man. Are oyu sure you got that fact right about him wanting to be champ at 168?

no biggie, he still did what he did, regardless of your observation being wrong or right -i fully back the rest of your post.

 

1 ....SO WHAT? you fight at a weight you are strongest at and can MAKE as it's your health at stake . Basic boxing .

2 .... Roy went to L/ Heavy because it was the weight Roy felt strongest at and could make Joe would have disadvantaged himself had he fought there as he would have been weaker at 175lbs
Basic boxing .

Joe probably would have had in mind that it is better to be a an ALL TIME GREAT 168lbs Champion than possibly a not so great 175lbs trinket holding also ran L/Heavy like 75% of the fighters you listed.
Basic boxing .

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