How does Frazier, Norton and Foreman do against a 1966-1967 Ali

The Frazier that beat Ali in Madison square garden would do it anytime 1967 on. Ali always beats Foreman. and a younger Ali might beat Norton though I don't think he ever really beat Ken.

 

They lose.

 

Ali wins all for me.

 

I agree with every word

 

A weaker Ali, yes he does. He took a beating in 71 Ali lets not forget that.He willed himself on but as far as i'm concerned he clearly lost

 

I'd take him to beat the three of them.I am one of those who agrees with Angelo Dundee when he says ,
"you never saw his prime"that would have been the 3and a half years he wasn't allowed to fight .
In FOTC he retreated to the ropes for long periods because he didnt trust his legs or stamina,the Ali of the Williams fight wouldn't have done that,imo.He would win all these fights by decision,imo.

 

Fast Ali's chin was toilet paper compared to older Ali. Let's not forget that either.

 

What instances would you put forth around 66-67? Ali right at exile time was a lot different to the pubescent Clay of 3 years prior.

 

An Ali past 30 is 3-0 against Frazier and Foreman, and 2-0 against them when he was in his 30's and they were in their 20's, so that should be self evident.

An Ali in top shape at 31 just managed to squeeze by Norton, but the 25 year old version still had quite a bit more in his legs imo, so that version should make it more comfortable.

 

And I don't get this how Ali was weaker in 1967 compared to 1971. He clearly was stronger if anything. Compare the muscle tone of the 215 lbs Ali against Chuvalo in 1966 to the 215 lbs Ali in FOTC.

How can you possibly make your muscles stronger in just six months of training after 3,5 years inactivity? I don't see that as a possibility if he didn't take PEDs, and nothing points to him doing so.

I can accept the Ali of the mid 70's possibly being stronger. By that time he had regained all he could regain after the lay-off and probably grown a bit. But I'm still not sure about that. He mostly looked more flabby at 220-225 lbs. It certainly wasn't 10 lbs of pure muscle he put on, like Holy did in his 30's.

 

Ali beats them all convincingly.

Ali pre exile was faster and hard to hit, he boxed like a welterweight.

Post exile he was a harder tougher man who was very smart, but he was not as fast and easier to hit. He never had the same spring in his legs.

60s Ali was an exceptionally unique fighter.

70s Ali was a hardened legend.

 

Seems to me Ali fans are trying for a composite of Ali where the new idealized version has all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. To me the younger and older versions had distinct differences, some advantageous, some less so.

 

Do you think the Ali who was dropped by Cooper in1963 was the same as the fighter who beat Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell? Cooper stated the second time he fought Ali he noticed right away how he had developed savvy in the clinches and that he was a far more rounded fighter.
Plus he had added 6lbs of muscle to his frame and had 4 years more maturity.at 24/25. Or do you think the 21 years old,207lbs Ali was as good as he got?