Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier

Amen

 

TB frank with you I couldn't care less what you think.

 

Ok.. It is a free world

 

I should qualify my post by saying I do enjoy and agree with some of your
input.

 

Yeah sometimes i strongly disagree with some posters in certain topics but i agree 100% with these same guys on different threads

 

Calls the Heavyweight Champion of the World a bully coward.
No top fighter in any division is a bully coward. Every single one of them is 10 times tougher than you or anYone else on this board. Do you know how much guts and dedication it takes to even become a regional amateur champion?

People are always so eager to put fighters into categories like "bully". That's an oversimplification. There is just as much evidence if not more that Liston is a tough sob.

Liston got knocked out when he was old and an addict.
Frazier got a gift against a bodybuilder bum in 1981.
So what. Irrelevant to the thread.

@choklab according to your logic foreman shouldn't have been able to beat Frazier then. He hadn't beaten anyone.

Where is the proof that Frazier can take liston punch? Which big bombers shots did he take without going down?

 

What a bunch of incoherent and irrelevant words... The boxing is not for you

 

You and I either strongly agree or strongly disagree

You and I are far apart on Liston and Foreman

 

Well yes statistically Foreman had no right beating Frazier since he was unbeaten and by then had achieved greatness already by cleaning out the division. Sometimes the fight has to happen to know for sure. All the experts were sensible predicting a Frazier win because of this, since there was nothing much to go on with George, but with hindsight we now know there were many other factors that are not in the statistics like Foreman being underrated and Frazier no longer being the same fighter he had been in the Ali fight. Frazier still had to fight a great fighter to see if he still had it. Against great fighters Frazier no longer had what it took. Joe had used up all his best nights.

 

I disagree he still had enough left to give us Manila.

 

"No longer had what it took" suggests that he could have done it before but had lost his edge a bit and just couldn't pull out the win the way Hagler couldn't vs leonard....but the actual fight wasn't even close. It was a blow out.

If Frazier had given him a close competitive fight before being stopped or atleast hung in there as long as lyle did then that might support your argument but the nature of the actual result and the lack of other big Punchers on Frazier's resumee raises some serious question marks about Frazier's ability to take Listons punch

Seriously what does Frazier do once Listons xtends his jab? Answer: He will Bob under the jab and step in, in order to come up out of the crouch with the hook.
So in order to win sonny just needs to aim his uppercut to where Frazier's head bobs after he jabs and Frazier gets dropped or stunned and backs up and it's all downhill from there.

 

Excellent.

 

I do think Liston lands his jab at times, but not at will .. Frazier does get through often in this imo .. but I personally pick Sonny winning this with his 2 fisted power in a slugfest to KO Frazier, and not so much because of his jab

 

It would all depend on Listons strategy.....if he comes out attacking he stops Frazier if he boxes and lets Frazier get smokin, Joe chews Liston up like a buzzsaw and stops him mid to late...IMO the fight depends on Liston it's his fight to lose in the first 3 rds after that it's Fraziers....Joe was strong he had a good right but a better hook and was sharp and crisp his speed and power was pretty good his punches both slammed like a sledgehammer and cut fighters.....the difference between Frazier and other smaller heavyweights was he was stronger than most in the ring he was really physical from 1-15 and carried his power throughout and his intensity and murderous pace the key for him with any big hitter is getting into the 3-4th rd

 

Even if he misses his jab, Liston just needs to study where Frazier's head bobs when he avoids the jab and step in and aim an uppercut after the jab at that spot. Frazier will get hit, pushed back because Liston stepped in and Frazier's feet were square and Joe will have to reset, repeating the process even if he doesn't go down