Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier

Do you understand how stupid you look by typing this out?? You act like his work in these 4 fights was an easy/no big deal task …. Do you even understand how difficult this was to do? It absolutely was a great thing ...Again, it took a up and coming prime time Ali to beat a 35 year old Liston and you think what? Prime Ali most likely beats prime Liston anyway … and you say you don't care how old Liston was .. If you are going to say something stupid like that ..then you better never use the terms "green" "past it" , etc... which I know you have, making yourself a hypocrite … We are talking here about Prime Liston vs Prime Frazier. And all you come up with is how bad a 35 year old Liston and older performed

 

Sonny was old against Martin, Shot, hmm let’s think. Sonny was on a long win streak. He was knocking guys out. He was knocking out journeymen as quick or quicker than a lot of the rising stars were at that time. Mcmurray, Bailey, Elmer Rush, Scrap iron johnson, Richser. Good results. Henry Clark, for instance was a great win for Sonny. and this was all very recent to meeting Martin, a guy he was beating up to begin with.

How many beatings had Sonny taken? The first Ali fight was the worst beating he ever took and it was by no means a career ending thing since he pulled out after the first one sided round with his shoulder strain. After that you have to go beyond his most celebrated wins to find even competitive moments. Where was this wear and tear?

 

None of these guys except possibly Clark was world class. We would need to see him against top contenders to see if he still had anything left

 

The 1951 joe louis for example would have been heavily favored to tear through such opponents

 

He was what 39? against Martin … Maybe fighting everyday in the streets and probably in jail adds to wear and tear .. don't you think? …. that's sports in general, not just boxing that 39 is old … very few athletes can compete at that age …. I'm sure drinking, drugs, etc adds to wear and tear as well … Sure he was still fighting but you are eventually gonna lose(better chance at it) being that age as opposed to being Prime in '59 '60

 

I was talking about the capacity of taking a shot, there is no ****ing excuse for getting knocked clean out by a nobody at 40,45 etc. You are changing and avoiding the topic and saying that beating the opossition that he did beat was great and it was not a great thing at all. Sonny liston is overrated and the myth that he would be a h2h monster against another great fighters is a joke based on nothing but fantasy. A green clay schooled him badly and clay did not have big experience at that time and he only 22 ali peaked at 25. If you look the big rivals of ali, liston was the easiest fight of all them. The only problem here is that you get mad when you read a truth against him,grow up

 

What evidence is there that Frazier was out partying the night before he fought Foreman?How many rounds did Frazier win in the second Foreman fight?

 

So Sonny was in excellent shape at 40+ whereas Frazier was a mere shell at 29?

 

Frazier stopped machen.. Go to watch cartoons

 

Still frazier did not get knocked the **** out by the 50 count by a nobody

 

Now that I'm grown up …. Wasn't Frazier bombed out at age 30? Down 6 times in 2 rounds? and quit at age 31? … be consistent please … thanks

 

mentioning this you exposed yourself like one of the biggest idiots ever on this forum. So you are comparing getting dropped several times by a top 1-2 hardest hitters in history with getting knocked clean the **** out by a nobody... Bravo!!!!

 

Frazier stopped an old Machen not a prime version

 

If Frazier kept fighting into his 50s eventually a nobody would have knocked him out just depends on his rate of decline

 

Yup you mention age when it only fits the narrative for yourself … Again, be consistent please … Liston was one of the hardest hitters himself as you have exposed yourself as being the biggest idiot here failing to realize this … And dismissing the fact that Liston has a good chance in bombing out Frazier as well .. which was the point I was always making in the beginning that went right over your head because it is so far stuck in the sand … you do not know if you are coming or going …. you dismissing this makes you a complete moron