GGG vs James Toney.

I think he looked in fine shape against Nunn and McCallum. He was just in partucularily poor shape against Tiberi.

 

Marciano is my 5-6 place ATG and Vitali is a distant 19- 20. H2H, I give Rocky little chance.
Joe Louis is my #2 ATG. Liston is 7-9, WLad is 10. I think Joe loses a series to both guys.


Re GGG and Toney, I think it almost certainly goes the distance.
Beyond that, it's too close to call.

 

While I reckon that Toney was a more complete fighter at the higher weight classes, he does have an impressive resume at middleweight (Nunn, Mc Callum, Reggie Johnson). He did display impressive stamina in all 3 of those fights by finishing stronger than his opponents.He also had a high punch output in those fights. This is all contrary to popular Believe here,

So your point is well taken. But my view is that middleweight Toney beats him by a closer more competitive decision. I do not see it as an easy fight. At super middlweight, Toney would put on a more dominant performance.

 

The other major problem with not waiting for 3G to retire before prejudging him is this - all of royjones opposition have retired pretty much so you can assess them on their full resume too, which is which he has so many elite scalps.

AT present 3G does not have an elite scalp, just an elite draw -BUT CONSIDER, in a few years from now guys that 3G has fought may become elites and HoF and ATG too. You would have to completely reconsider 3G's resume if many of 3G's opponents went on to do amazing things, consider what if

- Danny Geale moves up to Cruiserweight and becomes undipsuted champ, or Macklin unifies SMW and sets a record number of SMW defences before he retires.
That means 3G gains 2 new HoF/ATG wins.

-What if Kell Brook next destroys a string of ATGs next year? The 3Gs win becomes much better, a HoF win.

If Macklin next year moved to HW and beat Tyson Fury? Then 3G's win becomes an ATG win.

See- this is why you need to wait till the career is over before judging someone. The full picture is needed to make a valid judgement.

 

I don't even consider it an elite draw, as I'm not as big on Canelo as some others.

 

This is a good point. GGG beat mostly younger fighters. So each opponent he meet has time to enhance their own legacy.

 

I just watched McCallum / Toney and GGG / Canelo back to back and I have to disagree. There seems to be not a great difference in speed between Golovkin and McCallum, but the difference in class seems to me to be in Golovkin's favour. McCallum tends to push his jab and it's mainly for scoring points. Golovkin's jab is far crisper and actually snaps Canelo's head back several times. McCallum does not have the footwork that Golovkin has. Golovkin often uses his footwork to create or close the space between himself and Canelo depending on whether he's working offense or defence. McCallum does not have the same ability.

To wit:

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It wasn't even set up. Golovkin landing that same punch would have had far worse consequences. Look at Toney get up on stiff legs afterwards. He felt it.

^ Disagree.

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We disagree. I think Canelo is better.

This debate has been done many times.

The usual defences for Toney's ho-hum performances against Nunn and McCallum are that Nunn and McCallum are better than Golovkin.

The defence for him getting floored is that Reggie Johnson hits harder than Golovkin.

The defence for him looking terrible against Sanderline and Tiberi are "he had a bad night". Even Merqui Sosa with his leaping punches and complete lack of defence, ran Toney to the wire. Another bad night? Or was Sosa also better than GGG?

Personally I reject the idea that Nunn, McCallum, Johnson and Sosa are better or hit harder than Golovkin. I likewise scoff at the idea that everytime Toney had a bad performance, it ought to be ignored.

Myself, I see a simple thing.

Everytime Toney stepped up in class at middleweight, he struggled.

Golovkin isn't a just a step up in class, he's on the next flight of stairs.

 

Canelo better than McCallum... BWAHHAHAHHAHAHA

 

No doubt! The Body Snatcher would put a beating on Canelo.

 

*shrug*

Watch the footage. I think his skills may be better than Toney.

 

Agreed. Mc Callum is in higher class than Canelo.

 

Canelo is way overrated here. Who has he beaten? He got humiliated by litlle Floyd and a few questionable
decisions against the only other top opposition, because of his promoter. Quite frankly, I think Jacobs UD Canelo. Mc Callum would have beaten both.

 

You argue that GGG has a better jab than Mc Callum. That is interesting because Toney listed Mc Callum as the best jabber he ever faced in the Ring Magazine. Certainly, Mc Callum is a better boxer than GGG, or are you going to dispute that as well? Just for your information, Emmanuel Steward listed Mc Callum as the most complete fighter he ever trained.

 

I will preface this by saying that the one poster I had on my wall during my athlete phase of my life was of James Toney... That said... I feel he gets overrated by those who want to pat themselves on their collective backs for recognizing the cute little things that Bill Miller taught him, those "old school moves" that had almost been lost to the fog of history, rather than examining the complete span of his performances. I still rate him very highly, just not to the heights that some proclaim. In the end, despite all the hype and all his talk of being able to beat Klitschko and Jones and Darius, he was beatable. Tiberi did it. Thadzi did it. Reggie Johnson arguably did it. Griffin did it twice.

This would be a very close match-up.