How does Tony Zale do against the murderers row?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Aug 7, 2018.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,077
    3,733
    Sep 14, 2005
    Are you trying to justify Freddie Mills as a better title defense over Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles? Based on ticket selling?
     
    mcvey likes this.
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,076
    Jun 2, 2006
    How else can you interpret it?
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Promoters want to make the fights that make the most Money. If mills drew more money than Charles then I can see why that one got made first.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,076
    Jun 2, 2006
    The Mills fight was in the UK, Mills was English, in the US it would not have drawn two cents . Mills did not deserve the shot.
    Name one world ranked lhvy he beat to earn his shot?
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Jack Solomon’s knew that fight would make the money it did. He took on partners who would guarantee a purse for Lesnevich on the strength of what that fight would make. The two Mills fights blew any purse Lesnevich could make in America right out of the water.

    It’s not right but like I said before, promoters will make the fights that make the most money over any other particular reason. Boxing is a business.

    As for Mills credentials, he was rated. And that’s enough. He beat jock Mcvey, he beat len Harvey, heavyweight Jack London and Bert Gilroy, he held British and European titles and beat the world champion fair and square. He also visibly hurt Joey Maxim on film more than anyone else did before losing in his last ever fight.

    If he won the fight then he deserved the opportunity. Plenty of unrated challengers have had title fights in history and lost. Mills was rated and won.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Billy Fox could have been better than people make out. He knocked out Artie Lavine right after he nearly beat Ray Robinson. Lavine almost Knocked Ray out. You had to be a real fighter to beat Artie Lavine. I don’t buy that Fox was a sham fighter. He was rising up the ranks with spectacular knockouts, he must have fooled Ring Magazine if he was.

    Sure Lamotta threw their fight but if Fox was nothing, why was it only good fighters beat him?


    I would love to know. How do we know if it was possible to stage a title fight at that time? With war looming, titles frozen and the champions And fans drafted maybe this was a bad time?
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,077
    3,733
    Sep 14, 2005
    Jesus absolute hogwash. Charles was robbed of a title shot as much as anyone in history.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    This is probably true. I am only presenting solutions as to why that probably was. Being avoided because the champ was afraid of him is too simplistic. The champ did fight him for another title. Money comes first in boxing. Always has.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,076
    Jun 2, 2006
    McAvoy wasn't rated when Mills beat him and he lost because of a back injury.
    Harvey wasn't rated either.London wasn't rated, and neither was Gilroy ever.
    Harvey lost to Mills in1942 4 years earlier
    McAvoy lost to Mills in1942 4 years earlier
    How does beating them ,[McAvoy by injury] qualify Mills for a title shot? Mills fought Lesnevich in1946 he was rated no 9
    no2 was Charles ,no3 was Moore, no4 was Chase ,no 5 was Smith.
    How come Lesnevich didn't choose one of them as a challenger?
    Mills beat Lesnevich in1948
    Ranked no1 wasCharles,no2 Moore,no3 Fox ,no4,Mills, Lloyd Marshall who had ko'd Mills a year earlier giving him 10 pounds in weight was number7!
    Between losing to Lesnevich the first time in 46 and fighting him again 1948 Mills fought one world ranked light heavyweight who beat him up and easily stopped him,he fought and beat a string of Euro patsies
    Nillson
    Quentemeija
    Bertola
    Goffuax
    Bueno
    A Scottish heavyweight Shaw
    Lost to 2 heavyweights Woodcock and Baksi
    And was ko'd by the only world ranked lhvy he faced Marshall who was conceding 10 lbs.
    You say he deserved his title shot?
    I say you're full of ****!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Harvey was serving in the Army. Champions were absent and titles were FROZEN. Their fight was billed as being for the British Boxing boards version of the World lightheavyweight title as won by Harvey in 1939.
    Harvey lost to mills when he was technically the undefeated title holder of the BBBC version of Wold lightheavyweight Champion since winning that vacant share of the title when Billy Conn moved up to heavyweight. This version of the title was FROZEN since 1939.

    That is high enough. Mills was champion of half of the boxing world as well. British, Empire and European champion. Freddie also beat the undefeated BBBC “world” champion, a title that no longer stood once Mills won it. Just as Savolds claim for the heavyweight version no longer stood once Joe Louis beat him.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,076
    Jun 2, 2006
    You may have convinced yourself, but no one else is buying what you are selling!
     
    SuzieQ49 likes this.
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Harvey was absent because having won the British boxing board of control version of the world title he was serving in the world war. All serving world champions were absent from the ranks. The fight with Mills was billed as being for that world title.

    Harvey lost to mills having been the BBBC version of Wold lightheavyweight Champion since winning that vacant share of the title when Billy Conn moved up to heavyweight. This version of the title was FROZEN since 1939.



    That is high enough. Mills was champion of half of the boxing world as well. British, Empire and Europe. And had beat the BBBC version of the world title.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,077
    3,733
    Sep 14, 2005
    Mills did NOT deserve a title shot over Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles


    In no way shape or form
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Technically they were rated higher than Mills but Freddie was viable and financially a more rewarding proposition than either Moore or Charles.
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,077
    3,733
    Sep 14, 2005
    Incorrect