Taking a look at Monzon's six best wins

And McVey is famous for a forgetful memory Or perhaps he's just lying again. This enter passage is designed to deflect from the thread.

A quick summary to set him straight.

1 ) You agree with me the scoring in the Louis v Farr fight was terrible. I find the ref and scoring in many of Louis fights were slanted toward Louis.

2 ) I never said Frazier wasn't much, just that his chin wasn't very good, and he didn't fight punchers. You agree with me on both points.

3 ) I'll skip your wife beating assaulting sickly man idol

4 ) I never said Dempsey was afraid of black fighters. This is a lie. I said he didn't fight more than one of them.

 

Man_Machine,

You should be aware, Mcvey has his own issues with myself and several other posters here.

What did I write about Monzon that wasn't true? No one is going there.

Do you find Monzon fast handed?

Did he have a lot of power?

Did you know he beat 26 fighters with a losing record according to Box Rec, and many others who would be viewed as journeyman. Wouldn't you say this is a lot of fluff on his record?

How much credit do you give him for beating smaller men, who lacked height and reach moving up to middle weight? Stylistically Monzon had an advantage over a similar group of opponents. The best puncher he fought ( Valdez ) floored him. The 2nd best puncher he fought in Briscoe nearly finished him. Both men were natural welters moving up. Well, to be technical Valdes started out at super light weight! Since he didn't face may natural middles with power, his chin vs them is untested, but tested and suspect vs welters who can punch.

You have done nothing to test my facts. The stand and tower over what you wrote. It would be best if you acknowledge the facts and come up with observational points on why you think Monzon was that good.

I do hope you are learning something along the way. For example, Monzon had a lot of fluff on his record. I never saw anyone mention that before.

 

Pretty solid with his right hand. 6.5 to 7 out of 10.

Ali kept his power in the later rounds, and had a knack for delivering a bomb when needed. The speed of the punch, or his distraction antics often caught his opponents off guard when delivering it.

 

Relative to you, easily.

 

Thanks. Research and watching video is not this forums strong point in general. A few posters do a great job with it.

I give Monzon his due as a great middle weight, however I remain objective to who he beat, and when he beat them.

 

Side topic which I'll only address once in this thread. I believe durability is best tested when the fighter is hit cleanly. Many of Frazier’s opponents who didn't land much on him stunned hum / buckled his knees / floored him. ( Bruce, Ramos, Stander and Bugner ) fall into this grouping.

The best puncher he fought was Foreman who destroyed him. The second best puncher he fought was likely Bonavena. Bonavena floored Frazier twice. In Frazier’s own words he was close to defeat. Bonavena to me is a sold hitter, nothing beyond that. I scored the fight a clean draw on the ten point must system, which was not used for that fight. The judges saw it as a split decision, one round away a majority draw, with Bonavena having one vote are the winner.

Frazier had a pretty short career. Had he faced Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Mac Foster, Liston, or Martin…the better puncher’s we’d have a better benchmark between Foreman and Bonavena, but based on what I’ve see all of the above could knock him out as the first grouping I mentioned had visible effect on Frazier in fights where they did not land anything significant.

Frazier’s pride and anger with Ali meant he was going to face the possibility of death before he let Ali floor him.