How does Tony Zale do against the murderers row?

Floyd Patterson at light-heavy in 1955.

I am not certain of this, but other than possibly the #10 Dave Whitlock, I don't think he had beaten a guy rated in the top ten at light-heavy when he fought them.

Interestingly, I don't think Carlos Monzon fought any ranked fighters until he won the title, but he wasn't ranked very high. Might show the limitations of the ratings.

 

and what was his reason for defending against Beshore? Didn't like him either? What about Nick Barone? Had something against him also?

and by the way, do you have a quote from Charles saying this was his reason for fighting Lesnevich?

And perhaps Zale hated Graziano.

 

Just like Arcel said on an old HBO special that Wills was tailor made for Dempsey. See it goes both ways not just what fits into your way of looking at things.

 

"the outstanding contender"

You should read more carefully. It says AN outstanding contender. That "an" allows for other outstanding contenders.

"LaMotta fought the BEST welterweight champion"

Well, two things. Robinson wasn't actually champion in the summer of 1946, but that is admittedly a weak point as he was certainly the uncrowned champion.

Second, though, LaMotta lost 4 of 5 to Robinson, and also lost 1 of 4 to Zivic. Graziano knocked his welter champions out in every bout.

"3 fighters Graziano wouldn't dream of facing"

How do you know that? He faced Robinson, who was better and a more dangerous puncher than those guys, and also, for all your put downs, Zale, who was viewed as a very dangerous puncher.

Williams and Lytell were not big punchers, even at their peaks, which they were not at when LaMotta met them.

"Graziano--an overhyped New York poster boy"

I agree. But one with color and a punch.

"LaMotta-a fearless middleweight who was one of the few white contenders to take on the murderers row"

Some truth in this, as most of the other top white middleweights were in the service. When he actually had a chance to prove himself the top contender against Burley, he crawled into a hole.

"Only got a title shot after agreeing to take part in a fixed fight."

Over the more highly rated Steve Belloise, who rather than a title shot had to take on Robinson and was eliminated.

Actually, LaMotta is also an over-hyped New York poster boy, one with a better chin but a far weaker punch, and frankly, a far less colorful personality.

I think someone should explore LaMotta's connections to the old Detroit Purple Gang, as his record is so much better in Detroit than his record anywhere else. The Purple Gang was not part of the Mafia, but a Jewish gang which ran Detroit going back to the Prohibition era.

 

Tbf, Duran got a crack at the undisputed MW title without ever having faced a MW.

And Hearns hadn't beaten a ranked MW either when he faced Hagler, I think. Still he was ranked nr 1 by The Ring.

I do think Hearns had done better work closer to MW than Graziano, and by that time Hagler had cleaned out most of the top contenders of the first half of the 80's, whereas in Zale's case the top contenders of the first half of the 40's that still were around had been kept waiting due to the frozen title.

 

As for LaMottas win over Williams, it's hard to gauge the exact quality of it. I think I've previously called Williams shot by this stage, but that seems to be taking it too far. He seemingly had run Cerdan close in the previous fight (AP had it a draw) and perhaps would have gotten the nod had it been in his home town instead of Cerdan's.

LaMotta on the other hand went to Williams's home town, Detroit, and won a very clear decision. The decision was booed by the crowd, but that was likely because it went against the home fighter.

 

In Raging Bull, Jake 's book he says Graziano used to call him "Policeman".

 

The Purple Gang? Very close friends with Jack Sharkey and Johnny Buckley his manager. Graziano faced Robinson when he was just a challenger ,an ex champ and had nothing left to lose.Bert Lytell challenged Graziano several times telling him to his face Rocky was afraid to fight him.
btw Lytell's power is probably underated he fought a lot of bigger guys.

 

I wouldn't say Williams was shot at 31, but he had nearly180 fights on his clock.Among them were guys like;
Cocoa Kidx13
Bert Lytellx3
Charley Burley x6
Jose Basora x3
Aaron Wade
Kid Tunero x2
Jack Chase x3
Eddie Bookerx2
Bob Sattefield
Archie Moorex2
That's a hell of a lot of quality mileage and Williams wasn't a puncher so he went many rounds. It would be amazing if he was still prime when he fought Lamotta and Cerdan.

 

No, I don't think he was. And then it is the psychological aspect as well. He might have been hoping for a title shot, but Zale instead signed for a fight with Graziano, probably around the time Williams lost to Lytell, and then the loss to Cerdan pushed him further away from top contender status. A win over LaMotta might have put him right back at the top, though, so it's not like nothing was riding on it.

Another question is if LaMotta and his camp thought this was the perfect time to take Williams on - the win seems to have helped him to the top spot in The Ring's ranking - or if it just happened that way.

 

Hard to know.