Where does Graziano rate all time at middleweight?

Exciting fighter. Big puncher. But all time list at middle- not for me

 

He doesn't rate all time. He was colorful character. Very exciting and had a big punch. Limited boxing skills. He held the title for a few months bug he did best an aging but good fighter.

 

I doubt top fifty.

 

He's one of the great charismatic figures in boxing history and his is one of the few sports biographies/autobiographies that I fully enjoyed.

The death defying title win over Zale is the obvious crown jewel of an otherwise sparse resume. Two kayo wins over Freddie Cochrane are nice, as well as his early stoppage of fellow bomb-slinger Bummy Davis and the win over feverishly hyped Billy Arnold. And if you want to really really be charitable give him credit for his wins over Tony Janiro and the fact that he eventually figured out Harold Green, who was his longtime rival.

He's not an all time great really, but he is an all time great puncher, since he barely trained, smoked and rank, and still did what he did, almost exclusively because of his right hand.

 

Good fighter, fun fighter, but not at that level for me.

 

Action limited fighter who doesn't really rate.
From what I've read one hell of a street fighter though. I would take LaMotta in the ring but Rocky outside it.

 

Great question. Rocky was willing to go out on his shield....and put fans in the seats.

 

I wouldn't rate him very high. I think much of the criticism of him made on the Zale thread is valid.

But what strikes me is how much of a cloud is over all the 1940's middles due to the war.

Zale unites the title, but loses 4 years to the service. Coming back his only big wins are over Graziano, before losing badly to Cerdan.

Cerdan is on the way up in Europe and might have been really great, but his career is put on hold by the war. He is 30 by the time he gets going again. He does beat Williams and Abrams to get to the aging Zale and then beats him. By the time he meets LaMotta, he is 33 and is injured in the fight. Might have been truly great, but the evidence is thin.

LaMotta is way over puffed. Came up during WWII making his rep fighting welters while avoiding Moore, Burley, and Williams in his own division. After the war, he finally takes on the slipping Williams after Williams starts losing before starting to lose himself fairly often. Gets a back door title shot by playing ball with the mob and tossing a fight and wins when Cerdan is hurt and has to fight one-handed. The rest of his career is mainly win one lose one shaky.

Burley and Williams were two good welters who both rise to the top at middle during the war while getting wins over a young Moore, who doesn't seem to have yet been quite the fighter he would become. Both stay at the top during the diminished competition of the war years, with Williams actually winning out at the end of their seven bout series. Williams falls apart right after the war in 1946 and Burley also slips from the ratings soon after.

Moore would become a truly great fighter. Was he as a middle in the 1940's? A lot of losses. He seems to have improved once he moved up to light-heavy.

Abrams was in the mix until eliminated by Cerdan.

Graziano is a small middle who builds his rep on welters, in fairness some of whom were very good, and because of an exciting style and big punch, plus a colorful and winning personality, works his way to a title shot at Zale. The two put on spectacular fights and so fight a trilogy. Zale, though, might have been over the hill. How good was Graziano? In fairness, good enough to beat some good, if smallish, fighters and to run up an excellent record against the carefully selected opponents he fought.

So my ratings
1----Cerdan
2----Zale
3----Burley
4----Williams
5----LaMotta
6----Graziano
7----Abrams

Hard to place Moore at middle, so I won't try to rate him.

I judge the middles of the 1930's and the 1950's to be better on the whole.

 

Excellent evaluation ^.

 

ok.

 

I don't recall seeing anyone rate Graziano in the top 10 or 12 all time at Middleweight. That have been so many outstanding 160lbers. He was Arturo Gatti of the 40s.

 

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