How much credit do you give a middleweight who defeated a welterweight that moved up at the champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Aug 17, 2018.


How much credit do you give a middleweight who defeated a welterweight that moved up at the champion

  1. Limited credit if the middle was hurt or floored during the win.

    28.6%
  2. A resume building type of win at best

    14.3%
  3. A modest amount of credit should be given but nothing beyond that, unless he blows the opponent out

    28.6%
  4. Good credit, even if he even he was smaller/less reach/older. IE, weight classes are over rated

    57.1%
  5. Very good credit. It is doubtful many in history could have done as well

    14.3%
  6. Legendary type of win

    14.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    How much credit do you give a middleweight who defeated a welterweight that moved up at the championship level?

    Suppose a jr welter or welter moved up from 140 or 147 to 160 pounds and stayed around 160 pounds on fight night, meaning he's not a light heavyweight on fight night.

    The fighter moving up in question is shorter, with less reach and older. He has also lost a few times and as history often shows the older smaller man moving up in class often loses to the younger and bigger man who is champion. How much credit should middleweight champion receive for defeating him?

    YOU MAY VOTE THREE TIMES.

    Limited credit if the middle was hurt or floored during the win.

    A resume building type of win at best

    A modest amount of credit should be given but nothing beyond that, unless he blows the
    opponent out.

    Good credit Good credit, even if he even he was smaller/less reach/older. IE, weight classes are over rated

    Very good credit. It is doubtful many in history could have done as well.

    Legendary type of win
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,328
    26,510
    Jun 26, 2009
    It’s too murky of a scenario you’re drawing. Why don’t you just tell us what fight you’re trying to discredit and let us discuss it?

    Many great middleweight champs previous competed at welter. Been a few great light heavyweight champs who were middleweights at earlier points in their careers.

    People grow.
     
  3. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    41,974
    4,029
    Sep 22, 2010
    depends entirely on the case at hand, but its generally of course less than intradivisional fights.

    whats this about mendoza? really i mean. r u still mad at machine man.
     
    Man_Machine and mcvey like this.
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,074
    Jun 2, 2006
    "If at first you don't succeed".


    God loves a trier!lol
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,074
    Jun 2, 2006
    He is trying to discredit Monzon,his first attempt did not succeed so he has regrouped!lol
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,978
    48,046
    Mar 21, 2007
    None of these answers make any sense "as a rule".

    If it's Charley Burley, that's a legendary win.

    If it Jeff Horn, it's a joke.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,978
    48,046
    Mar 21, 2007
    :lol:
     
    Saintpat likes this.
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    The lack of replies are amusing as this applies to all.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,074
    Jun 2, 2006
    Everyone knows exactly what the motive is behind this transparent post and are suffering from a case of ennui!lol
     
    The Morlocks likes this.
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    And yet they won't put their name down. Keep letting begin a fanboy trump objective honesty, that's what I find funny.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,978
    48,046
    Mar 21, 2007
    Come on Mendoza. I know you're getting a hard time on the forum just now which sucks, but this question is ridiculous.

    There's no right answer. It depends on the opponent.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,724
    29,074
    Jun 2, 2006
    Apart from the underlined because I think its just great lol ! I agree with this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
    SHADAPBLAD likes this.
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,426
    8,868
    Oct 8, 2013
    There is no answer it’s a case by case study.
     
    Colonel Sanders likes this.
  14. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    7,829
    13,119
    Oct 20, 2017
    I give Monzon immense credit for beating Jose Napoles.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007

    Immense credit? Napoles was a much smaller man ( Started out at lightweight ), stood 5'7" 1/2" tall and weighing at 153 pounds. Best at Welter, Jose was cut prone, stopped twice before this match, and lost three decisions. At age 33 Naples was near the end.

    Monzon had all the advantages

    • A blown up lightweight vs a natural middle
    • Singicfianlly taller with a much better reach
    • An age advantage 31 vs 33, Monzon much closer to his prime

    I'd say Monzon should get some credit for this win, nothing beyond that

    The bout was not without controversy either:

    Immediately after this bout Monzon, still in his boxing gear, hopped in a car and left for his hotel. The President of the French Boxing Federation, Bernard Restout, stated he would be filing a protest with the WBC for disciplinary action due to this action as Monzon was to immediately submit to the required post fight urinalysis. Monzon's camp claimed that the trailer, provided to the fighters, hadn't water or facilities and that Monzon preferred not to stop there for the test.

    Post fight comments

    "Monzon sure knew how to use the thumb. The way Jose's eye looked, there was not much else we could do." -Phil Silver, cornerman of Napoles.

    "He did it with his left hand, pushing my arm aside and shoving his thumb in my eye. It blinded me for the rest of the round." -Jose Napoles, claiming the thumbing happened in the 6th round.