Marcianos 3 minute bomb run on the durable Don Cockell

None I want to hear.

 

“Matthews beat Layne”

Who was coming off a loss to 11-2 Willie James. Who knows is Layne was even rated going into the Matthews bout. If he was, it wasn’t very high

“Durrelle”

Fought Archie Moore when Moore was 41-42 years old. Matthews would have had to take on Archie when he was 32-33 years old. Matthews wanted no part of that.

Chokelab, your stooge, was trying to make a point that because Moore struggled with Durrelle, he may have struggled with Matthews. The difference is Matthews would have had to face a much younger, better version of Archie Moore who was fit, and hungry for a title shot.

“Matthews only lost”

Of course he didn’t have a lot of losses. He was fed a long string of west coast bums, ham n eggers, and tomato cans for many years by protective manager jack Hurley. Hurley admitted he hid Matthews on the west coast and Padded his resume with a bunch of stiffs


“Matthews as a heavyweight”

Not a good one. Too short, couldn’t take a punch, didn’t hit hard enough, didn’t have any depth to his resume at heavyweight. I mean who did he fight at heavyweight except a fading Layne, Marciano, and cokkell? Oh wait he drew with Freddie Beshore!

Matthews being rated number 2 by NBA would be a joke. Based on what? A victory over Layne who was coming off a loss to 11-2 Willie James?

After destroying satterfield in 1 in Chicago in 1952, Clarence Henry’s management offered Marciano 40k to fight him in a title eliminator for the number 2 rating...Henry was rated number 3 in the world. Marciano number 2. This would have been the perfect eliminator fight. Two young ferocious power hitters with championship potential rated number 2 and 3 in the world. Henry looked sensational in his knockout over baker in Madison square garden.

What does Weill do? He balks, hoping someone else will knock off henry for him. Weill guesses right, as Henry takes a match with Harold Johnson and loses a very close decision.

Instead, Weill takes an eliminator fight with a west coast hype job who had no power or physical tools to seriously threaten beating Marciano. A win win for Weill. Why take a fight with the very dangerous Henry when he can earn the same status defeating a west coast hype job at a much less risk of losing. Weill was a very selective and smart manager.

Of course, I’m sure you will try to spin it off as “Matthews was just as good as Henry, yada yada” and im sure chokelab will like your post.

 

So (on a wet evening) if you walked into your local and you find out legendary boxing trainer Don Turner is upstairs in the function room doing a talk about modern comparisons with 1950s boxing, you would put your hat back on and go home without buying a drink?

 

Just found this Edward

“The leading 1950s heavyweight contender, Clarence Henry, had to retire because his coach picked up a bum off the street to train (save some money, cheap) a couple rounds in preparation for his fight with Archie Moore. The street bum was hired for peanuts by Henry’s manager. The sparring partners elbow hit Henry in the eye causing a separation of the cornea.”

 

What is your obsession with don turner

 

Henry quite possibly was better than Mathews and Cokkell. With hindsight. Without hindsight people had to go with the guy who won the right fight at the right time.

If Henry landed a Layne fight right when Mathews did or if He landed a Lastarza fight right when Cokkell did then Henry possibly beats them too. There is a good chance he could win those fights. But because Henry didn’t get those fights he didn’t gain the position those kinds of wins gave Cokkell and Mathews.

Just because he might have won that kind of fight dosnt mean he deserved to go in place of the men who did win that kind of fight. They still won that fight.

 

I don’t have a Don Turner obsession. I believe Turner is well respected and that His views are relevant to some lines of this discussion.

 

I think a good question is

Which heavyweights who challenges for the world heavyweight title post 1955 would cockell defeat?

Maybe only a few. Cockell is one of the worst challengers in heavyweight history since 1955 going by his thin resume and the way he looks on film

 

I'd buy a drink,




and stay downstairs.

 

McNeely,
Harris,
Rademacher
London,
Ramos
Zieglewicz
Daniels,
Stander
Roman,
Coopman
Dunn
Evangelista
Frank,
Zanon
Rodriguez
Tangstad
Bey

Wouldn't rule out his chances against the likes of:

Cooper
Bugner
Vaugn Bean
Cobb
Berbick
Leon Spinks
Wepner
LeDoux

Wouldn't put him in the worst tier. Cokkell seems to belong in a higher tier than the cream of the crap.

 

Disagree

Cockell was short with a very small reach, he didn’t have a punch, he had a below average chin, he had horrible footwork, his athleticism and speed were below average. He doesn’t do head to head

Cockell would definitely not beat the following

Harris
Bugner
Spinks
Cooper
Bey
LeDoux
Ramos
London
Evangelista
Bean
Stander


The rest are 50-50

 

Cokkell stands only one inch shorter than Harris and London and appears to have a better inside game than both. Ditto Evangelista. Ramos could be outhustled, and Bey sometimes fought as though in quicksand. Neither of them are locks, either.

He's the same height and reach as Stander, and appears infinitely faster. Stander's only chance would be to land a Sunday punch...and the dude was so slow that the punch wouldn't arrive until Monday. Definitely favor DC here.

He shouldn't beat Bugner or Bean, but they both had a tendency to be passive and fight down to the level of opposition.

If LeDoux can get out hustled by the likes of 5'9" Scrapiron Johnson, Cockell could certainly do the trick, too. Plus, he often bled. So did Cooper.

Cokkell beats the rest of the guys mentioned without much difficulty, imo.

 

I can’t believe he thought an Englishman would go home without buying a drink Mac!

 

Cockell wouldn't beat
London
Cooper
Bugner
Berbick
Spinks
Bey

 

Harris wasn’t an infighter, he was an outfighter with a good jab, better skills and a much better heavyweight record than cokkell. Harris outpointed a master boxer in Willie Pastrano. Harris would keep fat boy don at the end of a jab all night win a wide decision