Rocky Marciano's so called punching power

Just make sure you can get your own quivering lips Right around the foolishness of basing everything on benefit of hindsight. Take a big gulp.

And hold onto to that.

 

Thanks for that, Bucceroni looks horrible. Wild swing and misses, no defense, horribly crude. Wow how did lastarza lose to this guy.

Colells victories over lastarza and Matthews meant very little. For 2 of the 3 fights, matthews was not rated in the top 10 and would never defeat another contender again. As for the lastarza victory, the papers described lastarza as “washed up, ruined by Marciano.” Almost no one gave cokkel much credit. Valdes 2 round destruction of hurricane Jackson was considered much more impressive by the New York press.

 

I already proved my case for Valdes more deserving than cokell, you didn’t prove yours.

 

Dan Bucceroni looks awful on film.

 

I would certainly consider Nat Fleischer a decent judge of fights. This is what he wrote in The Ring:

"It was a savage, bruising hurting fight, tough for each, a give and take affair in which there were no knockdowns and at no time was either in danger of being dropped. Each was stunned several times."

"In my opinion the fight was a draw. I handed Layne five rounds and six points and had the same tally for Charles."

The Ring, October 1952, page 11.

Referee Dempsey whose opinion counted gave it to Layne. Some other observers, like Jack Hurley, also did. Fleischer was very critical of Dempsey for scoring so many rounds even, but not so much on the final result. The press on the whole gave the fight to Charles, but robbery seems a bit strong.

The best take on this is that Layne, with the advantage of a hometown crowd behind him, fought the former champion on pretty much equal terms.

 

We have fights 1 and 3 on film and Layne gets utterly decimated by Charles in both

 

Valdes nor Cokkell were regarded as threats to the title. Moore was. If anything the hope was Valdes might beat Moore so that Rocky didn’t have to fight Archie.

 

"got decimated by Charles"

so did a lot of other fighters. Charles is obviously the better fighter, but how many could actually edge out a close decision over him in one out of three fights.

 

On Bucceroni--Jimmy Slade looks fairly good on film to me. Here is part of his record:

8-19-1952-----Tommy Harrison (D)
9-25-1952-----James Parker (L SD)
10-14-1953----Dan Bucceroni (L UD)
11-19-1953----Herman Harris (KO)
11-30-1953----Rocky Jones (KO)
1-29-1954-----Harold Johnson (L SD)
2-17-1954-----Clarence Henry (W MD)
4-25-1954-----Hurricane Jackson (W UD)

I have never seen Tommy Harrison on film, but some of his record

9-28-1952-----Paul Andrews (W UD)
9-23-1952-----Rocky Jones (L UD)
10-20-1952----Charley Norkus (W SD)
11-3-1952-----Jimmy Bivins (W UD)
12-1-1952-----Wes Bascom (W SD)
2-4-1953------Ezzard Charles (L KO)
4-6-1953------Jimmy Bivins (W UD)
4-25-1953-----Wes Bascom (W MD)
7-22-1953-----Dan Bucceroni (L UD)
8-19-1953-----Jimmy Slade (D)
10-20-1953----Murray Bennett (W)
1-26-1954-----Earl Walls (W UD)

The question this raises for me is if Bucceroni is as bad as you're making out, why did he do better against Slade than Johnson, Henry, and Jackson, and better against Harrison than Andrews, Bivins, Bascom, Slade, and Walls?

We have only limited film of most of these men. The clip of Bucceroni above is about 30 seconds of the last round of a fight against a 6' 5"- 215 lb. man in which Bucceroni is clearly tired. Watch the last minute or so of the Archie Moore-Slade fight. It gives a very misleading impression of what the entire fight was like. Moore won by a wide margin, but Slade trapped him in a corner and pounded away during the last minute.

If you have more film of Bucceroni, I would be very interested in seeing it.

 

This. I'd also argue that he ruined Moore. Moore's timing, reflexes, and durability were never the same after he fought Marciano. The same type of guys Moore was beating with ease before the Marciano fight he was barely winning against after the Marciano fight.

 

Dan was giving away close to 30lb there.

 

Here’s another bruising clip of Bucceroni against Neuhaus. Forward to 6.18 to find it.

https://www.filmothek.bundesarchiv.de/video/583179

 

• Salt Lake Tribune - 6-3-1 Charles

• Rocky Mountain News - 5-3-2 Charles

In a blatantly obvious hometown decision, Referee Jack Dempsey scored 2 rounds for Layne, 1 round for Charles with 7 rounds even. Most objective observers felt Charles had won. During the fight Layne butted Charles repeatedly without caution from the referee.

Legendary cornerman and trainer Ray Arcel said,"Instead of adding dignity to the fight game, Dempsey has added disgrace."
No,that's your take, about a fight you haven't seen.

 

Harrison Charles film is on YouTube

 

Thank you very much for this clip. This is a very interesting clip for both fighters. Bucceroni doesn't look all that bad to me. He has a good left jab, a quick right cross, and seems a pretty good boxer for a big guy with decent movement.

Neuhaus is revealing. Except for the lighter hair, I would have thought it was Don C in there with the flab hanging over his belt.