Primo Carnera's ability

Because they couldn't box their way out of a wet paper bag, perhaps?

There's not a great deal of praise and even less that really indicates an appreciation for his boxing ability. The division of opinion weighs in favor of him being limited.

When you say, "Lets look at the facts", what you really mean is, let's take the one 'fact' (singular) that you think trumps all others, without reading about the fight and gleaning an interpretation of the action, from the perspectives of others.

I've reached my conclusion, because I've read about the fight itself. Not the reaction of a guy, who's job was not one of scoring the fight. Find me the outcry in the newspapers. Find me references from anyone, but Keenen, which indicate they were as outraged by the decision as he.

Barely serviceable.

This is just obfuscation, on your part - I've made my argument clear. I'm not going to keep explaining the same thing in different ways for you.

 

About sums it up. Carnera was never liked in the USA, they wanted him out of heavyweight boxing into a super dreadnaught division of 250 pounds or more.

Like you said he was a big man, with athletic ability, and some power. He didn't set up his offense well though.

Carnera could not take it well to the head. His most underestimated attribute? Heart. Just watch the Max Baer fight, Primo kept getting up.

They say he was in some fixed fights? How many did he tank?

 

I wonder what Tunney would've said about Riddick Bowe??

 

Primo wasn't much of a fighter as far as top line heavyweights go and definitely never made "great". He didn't take a very good punch and didn't have much power either. He was a great sell however and was brought along very much with that in mind. Early on they even went to the effort of surrounding him with small handlers and corner men and even his mouthpiece was made too big to enhance effect.

Tho they got him moving around with surprising speed and developed a really good jab his heart was never in the fight game and his is actually quite a sad story. No-one gave a crap about him when he was hospitalized and almost all the considerable money he had generated went to others. I think the only time he remotely prospered was when he went to wrestling - away from the gangsters.

 

You don't have to tank fights to be in fixed ones, nor do you have to be aware they are foregone conclusions.
Many class men carried opponents for business reasons.Johnson,Robinson,Langford,Jeannette,Attell,Wills,McVey,Moore .
etc.
Essentially they participated in fixed fights.ie their opponents were doing their best but they weren't.
Langford,Wills and McVey also were in fights ,[usually with each other,]where an understanding that neither would be going all - out had been arrived at.
Carnera quit against Baer and Louis asking the referee to stop both fights,I don't criticize him for that, he took bad beatings in both fights, but it's a fact. Nobody wanted Carnera out of boxing the ridiculous idea of a Dreadnought class arose out of the death of Schaaf ,a tragedy Carnera had nothing to do with .The Dreadnought idea quickly disappeared,there was never any movement to get Carnera out of boxing per se ,and he continued to draw big crowds his whole career.
He capitalised on his popularity after he retired by going into the pantomime of wrestling which couldn't have been much of a stretch for him if you think about it.
The idea he was disliked is horse ****.

 

limited as a champion? Limited as a conteder? Limited in relation to his size? Have you seen that many modern Superheavyweights? Reports on Carnera were by people having to assess what was for them an unusual specimen for the time. It is not unusual now. People today get past what they look like and decide if it is effective or not. Today that is what counts. Big guys are not good to watch. They’re hard to beat. And so was Carnera.

being a serviceable wordsmith cannot translate into passing official judgment on who is a barely serviceable fighter within the ratings. it is a ridiculous assumption. It’s like calling a pilot barely serviceable after making the grade with the red arrows.

I don’t think Primo was particularly cherished by Damon Runyon.

 

There were plenty of heavyweights around near or larger than Carnera, he wasnt unique. The difference was he was promoted as a product with tiny cornermen ,[ as JT mentioned,] exaggerated measurements etc, and they weren't ,nor did they have the muscle of the mob behind them pre- determining fights.
Examples of similar sized heavies would include:
Santa
Campolo
Rioux
Clark
Erickson
Redmond
Hansen
Impellettiere
Harris
And that's just the ones Carnera fought!

Damon Runyon was one man and he didn't represent the USA, or even the US press!
You are doing yourself no good with these preposterous statements and your credibility on the subject long ago got up and walked.

 

Yes plenty of physical specimens. I was talking more as a boxing specimen. A big guy who in his own way was able to be effective at a better level. This kind of thing became much more accepted these days. Back then a winner usually looked good. We have long got used to settling for “effective”.

Runyon was highly inspirational and influential among writers. He coined some of the nicknames given to Carnera. They were not that complementary and they set the tone. Clearly the best angle was to portray Carnera as a silly Oaf. But we know why Damon was set on this don’t we?

oh come now, we have reached this part of the cycle before. You start by saying Primo was a phoney. I produce credible facts that you cannot dispute and you respond by not saying you disagree but by saying I am no longer credible or that I am fundamentally dishonest. Do you disagree that Max Schmeling rated Primo Carnera? Do you disagree that Primo legitimately won big fights after losing to Max Baer? Do you disagree that if his fights were staged up until he won the title that it makes no sense that he won fights after losing the title?

 

First of all that's nonsense as fights can turn at any time. Secondly it was online the fourth round.

 

Agreed. Heart, conditioning, size all first rate. He did improve and was able to compete on a world class level and succeed to a certain degree based on stylistic match up. That said, when styles did not favor him his limitations became obvious as shown against Baer, Louis and Haynes .. decent sized guys with real power that he couldn't smother could and did hurt him. He was not a great champion by any means but became a real fighter and deserves that respect. I do believe his victories over Loughran, Uz and Sharkey were legit.

 

He is the most adept at infighting big man I have ever seen?

 

Uzcudun and Loughran certainly , When Carnera defended against Paulino the Basque hadn't been a rated heavyweight for five years!Loughran was outweighed by86lbs and he couldnt punch,the size disparity and the lack of a damaging punch sealed the deal for Primo plus Carnera stamped all over his feet,nearly crippling him.
I think Sharkey went for a swim.

 

Primo was well on top.

“From that first blow to the end, Carnera mussed up Neusel at will, grinning and wielding the troublesome left that had sweeping power but not enough jolt to deliver a knockout." -Associated Press.


“The wounded, exhausted German was declared the loser by technical knockout after two minutes and twenty three seconds of the round”. - press report re produced by
Primo Carnera, the life and career of the heavyweight champion by Joseph S. Page.

 

No we don't actually Carnera was called Satchel Feet ,The Ambling Alp.The Leaning Tower of Gorgonzola,almost as soon as he landed in the US, trying to tie this in with an alleged affair with Runyon's wife is pretty silly as well as inaccurate.

You keep making false statements and when you get called on them you rear up, its hilarious!

 

Page's book is ****, read the reviews.