Primo Carnera's ability

Uzcudun was an elite fighter. paulino had six straight wins just that year and had beat Max Baer just two years earlier! One fight after losing to Carnera Paulino drew with Max Schmeling who within a year or so would knockout Joe Louis. A guy who drew with the man to first knockout Joe Louis is a good opponent in my eyes.

Isn’t that the truth?

 

That is fundamentally dishonest. Joseph Pages book on Carnera has excellent reviews on Amazon. No bad ones in fact.

Maybe you should read It?

 

Well your talking to Mcvey.

Some fun facts, Carnera holds the second-most victories of all heavyweight champions with 88. Charles has the most, but if you take out his middle and light heavyweight fights, Carnera passes him by a mile.

Carnera has 71 career knockouts is the most of any world heavyweight champion. Anyone who says he could not hit hasn't seen or read much on him.

 

Which fights did Carnera carry people? I'm calling BS here. Names, please. Just like the Hank vs top ten middleweights, I predict you won't reply here...

He won the Uzcudun, Sharkey and Loughan fights cleanly. This proves he was not just a giant, he could also box

The press did not like Carnera. He was called “The Monster” by Time Magazine after Schaaf death. I already mentioned the super dreadnaught division. General John J. Phelan and William Muldoon announced that the "super-dreadnaught" class for oversized heavyweights, first organized in 1931, would be re-established and that Carnera could fight opponents only from this class. The USA boxing fans didn't embrace him. The media attempted to dehumanize him.

In boxing a fixed fight happens most often when:

1 ) A manager is trying to move his fighter up for a larger purse fight without risking a loss. The loser is paid to take a dive.

2 ) Tanking a fight when the odds offer a big payout, ie. an upset with the favorite taking a dive.

According to Nat Fleischer, Carnera was knocked down 12 times vs Max Bear, and he took a beating vs Louis. Not among the best heavyweight boxing champions for sure, Carnera made the most out of his life in boxing, wrestling and films.

 

Spot on. Defense wasn't his thing, and when he faced a puncher like Louis, or Bear, he was an easy target. While his body was hard, his ability to take to the head wasn't good at all.

With a different trainer, he could have better.

 

Again, irrelevant.

 

I dunno. The fix stuff seems to be kind of who you believe and when. I'd be interested in a book that specifically covers fixed fights.

In Kevin Smith's Sundowners the fight between Godfrey and Carnera is presented as if it's a well known and accepted fix but when i spoke about it here I'm fairly certain others brought up reasons as to why it's still suspect.

It's just another source for general boxing history frustration to me. I have Kevin's books because youse lot told me to get them. I post some snippets from the book and get told yeah those are great books but this particular part you've taken interest in is all wrong, buy this other book.

It seems like all you got to do is buy books until you find a historian who agrees with you.

 

Limited in boxing ability. I would have thought, given the title of the thread and the OP, this much was obvious.

But, I forget - you are often distracted by Carnera's physical attributes, regardless of the fact that they are not, in themselves, abilities.

Which is it - an "official judgement" or a "ridiculous assumption"? The two are somewhat removed from each other and I think neither are correctly applied, here.

I know! - Let's call it a considered opinion, based on some factual evidence...


I have suggested that I consider the period in question, to be a weak one for heavyweights. One might want to dispute this, although a case for the period being anything other than weak seems to raise something more akin to dust than anything firmly reliable. I'd suggest that the mere fact that Campolo and Impelletiere can be found making it into the ring rankings, shows the state of division, until Louis takes the reigns in 1937.


Let's look at Campolo first...

His 1927 Annual Ring Rating (positioned number 8) is based on four professional fights, with only two having taken place in 1927. This alone should tell you something about the period.

We could argue that Campolo's ranking in 1929 was deserved, relatively speaking, because at least he had beaten a previously ranked fighter, by the end of that year, in Heeney. That said, Heeney was nothing to write home about, by then. Following his loss to Campolo, his third loss that same year, he went 4-11-3 until he retired in 1936.

This is Campolo's moment in the sun. Moreover, his first defeat to Carnera could be considered a capitulation, as he is reported to have sat the count out, as if in contemplation. By the time he met Carnera a second time, he was grossly overweight, and never fought again.

Campolo being held up as some type of benchmark for Carnera's super heavyweight prowess is vaguely humorous.



Now, Ray Impelletiere...

He is Ring rated at the end of 1935 and 1936. Why?

He has only two recognizable names in the 'W' column of his 10-7-0 record. These are Smith and Lenglet.

Smith, who somehow finds himself in the annual Ring rankings with Impelletiere, by the end of 1935, went 3-7-1 (and 1 NC) that year. He goes 4-12-2 for the remainder of his career.

Lenglet, who looks better than Smith, on paper, had not made a full impact on the ratings by then and would find himself in the Top-10 by the end of '37, the following year. Nevertheless we should give Impelletiere some credit here, despite this being an unpopular decision.

In fact both of Impelletiere's main wins in his 17-fight career, were not clear cut victories. An AP report on the Smith bout is referred to by boxrec.com, to the effect that it was a "disputed decision". Moreover, it was an uninspiring performance.

The Lenglet win was an unpopular verdict; not particularly convincing and yet, similarly, we find Impelletiere - this less than 20-fight heavyweight - being considered a benchmark by some, against which they elevate Carnera, to previously unconsidered heights.



The Decatur Daily Review (Decatur, Illinois)
16 Nov 1935, Sat


Impelletlere Scores Dull Win Over Smlth

DETROIT (UP) Little doubt was left today as to the heavyweight caliber of Ray Impelletiere who last night struggled to a 10-round decision over the Montana cowboy, Ford Smith. Although Impelletiere enjoyed a tremendous advantage in both weight and reach, the Peekskill, N.Y., giant failed to show any semblance of power against Smith.
There was plenty of swinging but neither could seem to land and not a knockdown was registered. The crowd of 4,100 persons sat bored and clapped their hands for action as the fighters pawed and pushed each other.


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Honolulu Star-Bulletin (Honolulu, Hawaii)
25 Jul 1936, Sat
Page 10


SAN FRANCISCO, July 25. Ray Impelletiere, giant heavyweight Cold Spings, Ky., was awarded an unpopular decision over Andre Lenglet of France in a 10 round bout last night. The crowd booed the verdict, thinking the Frenchman had at least held his own with the eastern fighter.


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If these guys were air pilots, they certainly would not qualify for commercial flying. If they were somehow granted commercial licenses, not only would I not fly with them or the airline that employed them, but I'd also make sure they never flew within a 500 mile radius of my current position. And, probably 1000 miles, if by some madness they were let loose in a BAE Systems Hawk.

 

Uzcudun when he challenged Carnera for the title, had not been ranked for 5 years.That is the truth!
N.B .Man Machine is absolutely slaughtering you!

 

If only you could comprehend and read properly!
I never at any time suggested Carnera carried anybody! You really are incredibly dense!

 

Where do old rankings come from?

 

Janitor tells us Abe Attell took over his training around 1932? And that this is responsible for his, [as he believes ,]
noticeable improvement.I asked him before, for which fights Attell trained Carnera , and for how long and never got an answer

 

He's a damned dirty oaf!

 

The Columbus Telegram (Columbus, Nebraska)
23 Oct 1933, Mon
Page 6

(excerpt)
"There was absolutely no betting here on the Carnera-Uzcudun fight in Rome, the boys being of the opinion that Primo couldn't lose even if he broke both legs climbing into the ring"

 

It was described as a PR exercise for the Fascist movement ,no way was Primo losing that one ,especially against a back number who hadn't been ranked since 1928!