Was Sugar Ray Robinson really the perfect fighter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bronze Tiger, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You mean the 5th? That was the closest win score wise and according to Robinson the toughest. It seems to have been close and controversial.

    From Boxrec:
    The decision was disputed. Afterward, Robinson said "This was the toughest fight I've ever had with LaMotta."
     
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  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    No the one right before Robinson went into the Army. I believe Jake knocked him down in both fights 2 and 3.

    Interesting quote from Ray though. Fighters can be funny. Not sure how the 5th would be tougher than the 2nd fight that one he officially lost.
     
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  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Typical fighter's quote that one. The toughest fight and opponent are almost always the one where they won.
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Watching bits of some of his 40's fights (in his ww prime), I think Robinsson's head movement might be underestimated. From those clips it seems that much of his game was drawing leads and then countering, and he did indeed use some fine head movement in doing so.

    This was his prime. During his time as a MW he was slower and his reflexes gradually slowing which might have given a faulty perception of him lacking head movement.
     
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Where have you read that the 3rd was controversial? From what's available on Boxrec that doesn't seem to be the case (not saying what's on Boxrec is necessarily conclusive, though):

    • The Associated Press reported: "Sugar Ray's strategy was superb. From the opening bell he kept jabbing his famed lightning left into Jacob's face. When LaMotta rushed in to open a body attack, Sugar Ray stepped back and greeted him with a blistering right uppercut. This gave him a wide early lead."
    • Robinson was floored in the seventh round for an eight-count. Robinson later said, "He really hurt me with a left in the seventh round. I was a little dazed and decided to stay on the deck."
    • The referee gave Robinson five rounds, LaMotta three, and called two even. Neither judge gave LaMotta more than two rounds.
     
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  6. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I wonder why there isn't much (if any at all) quality film of Robinson from the 40s, but there's a good amount from Joe Louis.
     
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  7. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    If only Erol Spence was around then.....
     
  8. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Having a dwarf as a mascot? Boy, the things you could get away with in the politically incorrect times of the 40s.
     
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  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The HW title fights were the biggest and would probably more often be filmed and shown on closed circuit.
     
  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I don’t remember honestly. I’ve read so many boxing books and articles over the years. It’s clear that you don’t fight a guy 6 times unless the fights are very close. I know that LaMotta mentioned this one when their fights were brought up. It’s the only decision that he disputed. Jake believed that Ray got this one because he was gong into the Army and it was a gift more or less. The official cards don’t really don’t tell us either. Bad judging has been around for ever. 5-3 with a knock down is a close fight. They used to give more credit in the old days for aggression than they do in modern times.
     
  11. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    The dwarf was his interpreter in France.
     
  12. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

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    I guess you could view it as SRR being inclusive and not being discrimatory, but yes the 40s were less pc for sure, sensitivities were less accommodated in society.
     
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    It would be like judging Ali on his fights from 74 on. He was still great but more hittable and not as quick or mobile.
     
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  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The ref had it 5-3, but the judges had it 6-2-2 and 8-2, so a clear decision for Robinson all in all. But, as you say, the decision doesn't always give the correct picture. That's why I was curious about any sources saying it was controversial.
     
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'd say as Ali post exile, but it's a good comparison. Robinson when he came back from retirement was like Ali post Zaire.
     
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