Archie Moore's Credibility

I don’t put much stock in these types of quotes and rankings in general but where is the contradiction here? Strength and punching power are obviously two completely separate things.

 

Foreman gassed against Ali. Braddock did not gas against Louis. The concussive power of his punches knocked him out.

 

Does anyone here believe Moore sucked the juices out of red meat but didn't eat the meat?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Foreman himself on many occasions has said that both Archie and Louis diligently prepared him for Frazier and credits Louis for polishing up his uppercut. Louis from time to time assisted quite a few fighters during the 60's to early 70's. Liston credited Louis with helping him improve his jab and he also worked with Terrell and even Ali. Although Louis admitted that Ali never listened to anyone.

Louis at camp with Foreman and Archie
http://www.georgeforeman.com/images/scrapbook/SCAN0004c.jpg


Marciano did have much better defense than Byrd. Marciano would never get knocked flat by a novice like
Ibeabuchi. Ibeabuchi hit Byrd with the most telegraphed left uppercut due to Byrd's sloppy technique. Also, Marciano wouldn't let anybody constantly force him to the ropes.

At 1:58 Ibeabuchi lands a very telegraphed left uppercut on Byrd

This content is protected

Moore toyed with guys like Ibeabuchi.

Wilson had no problem keeping Ibeabuchi honest.

This content is protected

Wilson would throw a left hook to the body and keep his right hand by his chin when he came up, which completely neutralized Ibeabuchi's left uppercut. Wilson easily with the distance.

Byrd vs. Wlad

This content is protected

Byrd showing his sloppy use of the crouch again. At 59 seconds turns away, but doesn't get low enough and gets clobbered by a straight right. Wlad would never land that straight right on Marciano more than once. The few times Byrd got in range on Wlad he never went to the body, which was a mistake Marciano would never make. Byrd also had no defense at midrange. He was eating a bunch of Wlad's jabs. Byrd kept dropping his left hand. Marciano would keep outside hand up to parry good jabbers and then would work his way inside and go to work.

 

Yes he did. Marciano and many other fighters before the 60's did as well. I'll try to find the video, since Marciano in an interview explains why they do it.

 

I've explained Louis' presence at Foreman's camp he was paid to drum up publicity. There is no mention of Joe Louis ever helping Foreman in George's autobiography. Please provide a primary source for your claim.

 

Some fighters are more credible witnesses than others.

Where would I put Moore on this spectrum?

Probably somewhere in the middle.

He was a braggart, and could be self promoting, but did not engage in the major revisions that some fighters have done.

 

Moore was self promoting to get his shot at Marciano.I've seen nothing to call him a braggart.

 

It is fairly well-known that Marshall had the handcuffs on through much of his career. Because of this his Won-Lost and KO record is deceptive. We will never really know how good he was, but if Archie Moore and Burley rate him as a puncher. . .

 

I don't doubt it. Nor do I doubt it if Braddock said Baer hit harder than Louis.

 

I know but it shows there are factors besides punching power that determine a fight and you provided another, exhaustion.

I applied the same logic that had been provided in an earlier post (about Braddock, Baer and Louis) to Ali and Frazier to show that it was an overly simplistic way of looking at things.

We all know that Frazier hit harder than Ali.

 

Being stronger is not the same as hitting harder.

He can only relate who hit him harder.

Fighters forget details of the action over the years, just as do fight fans who swear they saw this or that happen and the film shows it’s not exactly how they remember. Eyewitnesses to crimes (and victims) also point at people in front of a jury sometime and say “That’s the person who did it” and we get DNA years later and it wasn’t them.

I don’t understand the point of your thread.