Roy Jones was better than Sugar Ray Robinson

Lol “a fight he was winning” it was a one round swing on every single card Ive ever seen and Jones was incredibly frustrated. He was desperate to get Griffin out of there because of the problems he was being given which is why he fouled in the first place. Dont act like he dominated that fight and then got unjustly DQd or that it wasnt REALLY a loss because it was.


And if you want to believe Ray was in his prime past 30 13 pounds above his best weight (after turning pro 30 pounds lighter) and even still after a three year layoff post Maxim I think the majority will disagree.

And again for the cheap seats: if Robinson were allowed to use steroids and cherry pick his opposition as Jones did then we wouldnt even have this discussion because as it was, without steroids and a fat HBO contract to hide behind Robinson has a stacked resume. Jones fought exactly ONE opponent (Toney) that you werent pretty damn sure going in that he was going to win (and never rematched him). People love to go on about Hopkins but it was Hopkins first big fight and first or second against an actual contender. He steered well clear of Hopkins when BHop was in his prime and with good reason. He doesnt get credit for beating the Hopkins who draped himself in glory YEARS later because he beat him when he was green. Doesnt work like that. Jones is only notable for the absolute whos who of people he somehow missed fights with during his career. And before you go and tell me they avoided him just keep in mind I lived through all of this and saw his own network out him as killing any chance of these fights happening and his fans rebel to organize the roycott because he fought a littany of no hopers. Jones and Robinson shouldnt even appear in the same sentence much less be compared on a scale of greatness.

 

Jones had scored two knockdowns and clearly hurt Griffin, the fight may have been competitive early on but Jones had clearly taken over.

 

As far as cherry-picking goes, I don't recall Robinson fighting Charley Burley, or Holman Williams, or Lloyd Marshall, or Cocoa Kid, or Dave Sands.

 

Here we go...

 

He's got no idea pre 2000 at all.

 

You see, I thought you'd say that which is why I added the number of rounds that each of them fought. Bear in mind that SRR fought 828 rounds over 131 fights in just under 11 years. Jones fought 161 rounds in 50 fights over 14 years.

Whatever way you cut it, Robinson was vastly more experienced than Jones. The idea that 'many of those fights were not against top contenders or guys he really had any business fighting' is a statement that could clearly apply to Jones but even if you apply the statement to Robinson, he also fought a lot more top fighters than Jones and in a super tough era too - and he still beat them all.

Robinson's additional experience counts and it counts for a lot. Let's not try to dismiss it as trivial - it really isn't.

 

He also lost to some of them and in several cases received decisions that easily could have gone the other way like against Marty Servo and Georgie Abrams. With a little less luck he could have had 5 official losses or even more.

 

Also, accusing Jones of cherry picking seems ridiculous given Robinson for whatever reason failed to face plenty of worthy opponents.

 

No he wasn't.
RJJ is one of my 3 favorites of all time but, SRRs chin, more conventional as well as agressive style put him ahead of Jones.

Jones had some attributes like Handspeed and reflexes that were unmatched by anyone his weight or higher, and he was incredibly smart and creative.
But he had a few real flaws like backing straight into the ropes that meant his style didn't age well and was simply unsustainable if you were not atleast 2 levels above your competition as a talent.
Jones was still faster and more talented than anyone at his weight 3-5years after he started losing to guys he should have never lost to. Someone with his athleticism could have been champ until they were 40 if they started adjusting their style at 30. Look at Hopkins.

SRR started losing because he was physically getting beaten up by better fighters once his athleticism faded. There was nothing wrong with his style and he just came to the end of his run.

 

I almost agree with the OP. Not sure if it's a troll starting thread.

Even comparing SRR, RJJ looked tremendous on film. A true phenom in this sport. He's probably the only pompous, conceited, referring to himself in the third person boxer I've ver liked. And that's because of his talent and what he did between the ropes.

I think RJJ does belong with SRR as 2 of the best ever. And it's close comparing them both. I still have SRR #1/2 P4P but RJJ was up there for a time.

 

Sugar Ray Robinson is significantly in front of RJJ.

There’s no doubt Jones Jr was a phenomenon, but this relied on looking great, rather than beating great competition, over the course his career. RJJ has not the record of wins against top-level performers to justify being held in the same light as Ray Robinson, who was superior to Jones Jr in every way, bar perhaps speed - and the difference here is something you couldn’t measure to any meaningful degree.

Image is nothing, without substance.

 

What prime loss did Robinson have? (other than against Jake LaMotta, one of the greatest middleweights ever, and it was avenged 5 times)

 

Randy Turpin and Joey Maxim

 

On my ATG P4P list I have Sugar Ray at number 1 (around your Langfords and your Grebs), and Roy Jones at number 30 (around your Mayweathers and your Pacquiaos). Sounds about right.

 

Oh yes, his "prime"....that would be when he was fighting part time postmen, upholsterers and pizza delivery men, right? Oh, except for Toney and Pazienza....well, ...Toney.