Mike Tyson vs George Foreman 1988

I know you Tyson guys are passionate...I’m that way about Ali and Marciano...but Tyson was beatable. Very beatable. It was proven by a few that if you control Tyson’s distance you control the fight. He couldn’t fight on the outside or the inside. He has that happy medium where he would crush you. Unfortunately for Tyson Foreman was great at keeping smaller opponents where he wanted them. And Tyson would lose confidence quickly once he saw he couldn’t knock big George out and felt his power. Just my humble opinion.

 

What are you basing this on? Foreman would have knocked Ruddock out.

 

I think Foreman was overrated, but his style against Tyson was a good one. That is why he came back, and yet he did not fight him. Foreman's style and strength could have beaten Mike..

 

George Foreman arrives at the weigh in, strips down to his underwear, and tips the scale at a trim 235 lbs. Mike Tyson weighs in at 219 lbs. Promoter Don King lifts the right arm of Foreman and the left arm of Tyson for a quick photo op. Donald Trump, owner of the Atlantic City Convention Center, the venue for the fight, looks pleased.

Michael Buffer booms out the particulars and the crowd readies itself for what many hope will be a competitive war.

The bell rings for round one, and Mike Tyson rushes out of his corner, bobbing and weaving in an attempt to immediately get inside. Big George pushes him off and gains punching room. However George is slow to pull the trigger and Tyson gets off first. Tyson lands a lunging hook that George shakes off. He is not hurt.

Tyson and George engage in a battle of jabs. Tyson effortlessly slips it time and again. At the same time, Tyson is able to get his jab in quite easily. But whenever Tyson follows the jab and gets inside, George ties him up in a bear hug.

The bell rings to end the round. Tyson looks visably frustrated. Many predicted a first round KO for Tyson and he didn't come close to realizing that prediction.

Kevin Rooney tells Tyson to be patient. George is slow. But he is very strong, has a decent jab, and knows how to tie up.

Rooney instructs Tyson to continue to slip the jab, follow with his own jab and to try to work the body in an effort to tire George out.

The bell rings and Tyson does as instructed. Despite being much shorter and having a significant reach disadvantage, he is able to outjab Foreman by utilizing great head movement, fast feet, and much superior hand speed.

Tyson isn't landing many power shots, but Foreman is landing virtually nothing.

Tyson easily wins round two and walks confidently back to his corner.

Foreman stands between rounds, and his trainer Archie Moore implores him to keep trying to push Tyson off to get punching room. He also tells him to try to land uppercuts whenever Tyson does get close. Then tie him up. But, don't just look to clinch without throwing anything.

This is good advice, but Tyson, once pushed off, does not simply stand still in Foreman's punching range. He continually bobs and weaves and jabs, providing an elusive target, and at the same time, keeping Foreman at bay with the jab. When George does try uppercuts, Tyson blocks most of them. One or two do land but they do not seem to have much effect on Tyson.

After five rounds, Tyson has won 4 out of 5 rounds. George is starting to suck wind a bit.

Tyson comes out with laser like focus in the sixth round. He slips a Foreman jab, then leaps in with a tremendous left hook. With Foreman standing stock still, Tyson follows with a huge right uppercut that snaps George's head back violently. Tyson follows with body shots and Foreman is forced back to the ropes. He effectively ties Tyson up, but this is the fist time Tyson has successfully corralled Foreman to the ropes. Foreman's eyes are starting to swell up, and Tyson smells blood. The bell rings and Foreman trudges back to his corner. At the same time, Tyson has a smirk that tells everyone in attendance that he knows he has control of the fight.

Between rounds, Rooney tells Tyson to accelerate his attack. George is gassing and doesn't have the speed to win the exchanges. He implores Tyson not to forget the body, though, as George's head appears to be hard as concrete.

Tyson storms out for round seven and immediately gets inside. He pummels George to the body and head. George teeters back to the ropes and Tyson explodes a left hook off his temple. George teeters on unsteady pins. Tyson opens up without pause. George is taking a beating but won't fall. Finally, his hands begin to drop, and referee Mills Lane immediately signals and end to the slaughter. He pulls Tyson away from Foreman and raises his hand in victory. Tyson sneers across the ring at Foreman, apparently upset that Big George is still standing.

Mike Tyson is a winner via impressive 7th round TKO.

 

If he could KO Holmes and Thomas, he could KO old Foreman.

 

Probable but I was thinking something more along these lines

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Perhaps. But he'd have taken a beating for his troubles. Rumor has it that Foreman didn't want any of Ruddock.

 

Foreman 1 was overrated on the back of beating an ill disciplined and not so focussed Frazier and then Norton who froze.
Foreman 2 deserves credit for the reinvention and his age, but the overrating reaches new levels of madness. Peak Tyson wins without a grain of doubt.

 

Yea

A beating from Ruddock? What could he do? Tell him he gonna throw a left and then do it. Razor wasn't a good enough boxer to avoid Foreman's power. Maybe a decision but George would be stuffing that jab in his face all night. It would be a like father/son. Foreman probably didn't want to fight him. What would be the point? If Razor was the champion then I'm sure he would have.

Tyson fans need Razor to be better than he actually was. He had a terrible Ring IQ good talent a waste.

 

Ruddock was considered more dangerous than Foreman in the early 90s and his punching power was real, despite whatever other flaws he had. And I'm not even saying that he'd beat Foreman, but that he'd be a dangerous opponent.

 

In short you have an uninformed opinion if all you've seen are highlight reels of some of his fights.

1) Tyson snatched victory from Botha.

2) If you can't consider Tyson dropping Douglas in the 8th after losing just about every round by wide margins then I don't see how "pushing someone to the brink in Manila" has any merit.

3) Lewis didn't snatch anything in McCall I and Rahman I. He was fortunate that the journeymen he lost to gave him a rematch. Unfortunately Douglas chose Holyfield and retirement.

4) You're placing a high premium of a fighter having to turn a fight around as a prerequisite for greatness. It's not. If anything winning outright should carry a higher premium IMO.

You want to judge a fighter's greatness? Use better criteria

1) Tenure as Champion
2) Quality of Opposition
3) Notable Omissions/Losses
4) Ability as a Fighter
5) Historical Significance/Special Accolades

 

Looks like someone is giving excuses to Joe Frazier because it doesn't fit his narrative.

Douglas, and was counted out as he was grabbing his mouthpiece to continue the fight.
Holyfield I, stopped on his feet.
Holyfield II, DQ'd
Lewis, was counted out (against a fellow ATG with punching power comparable to Foreman).
Williams, counted out (sustained an non-related injury)
McBride, RTD.

Knocked TF out 5 times? Perhaps those might be Alternative facts.

 

Yea he was dangerous. You have to watch for that big left. I was looking forward to seeing Floyd Patterson work on those things. It never got off the ground. Maybe if he had taken a page out of Old George 's book and fought some C and B level guys he may have learned to box. He needed time but $ and pressure to go right back in to the top was too much.

 

Good observation about Tyson fans needing Razor to be better than he was.

 

Despite your name, IronChamp, which clearly mark you as a Tyson cheerleader, you make a few good points. However, your argument does not change my opinion of Tyson. He was always a fragile front runner who either dominated an opponent from bell-to-bell, in victory, or withstood a prolonged beating, in defeat.

A few rebuttals to your points, in order are:

Tyson’s prime coincides with my youth, when I was becoming a hardcore boxing fan. I saw way more of his fights than I watched of his highlights. However, many of his fights, e.g., Frazier, Ferguson, Berbick, Spinks, Seldon, etc., were essentially highlights.

1. Only a Tyson fan would credit Mike with “snatching victory” from Frans Botha, who was a 7 to 1 underdog.

2. Frazier pushing Ali to the brink in Manila has more merit than Tyson’s 8th round KD of Douglas, here’s why. Frazier accomplished the feat in his 3rd fight with Ali, after kicking Ali’s @55 in the first fight and losing the rematch. If Tyson’s as good as you groupies think he was, he should never find himself in a position to “push” a 42 to 1 underdog to the brink.

3. I never said Tyson’s Daddy, Lewis, snatched victory from defeat. I said he avenged his defeats. Emphatically too. Funny how you say “unfortunately Douglas chose Holyfield and retirement” while conveniently ignoring the fact that Holyfield, who also has paternity rights over Tyson, kicked his @55 twice. Again, Tyson never avenged a professional defeat.

4. I’ll use your criteria to grade Tyson against the true HW ATGs.

LOUIS:
1. Tenure as champion: a still unmatched 12 years and 25 title defenses.
2. Quality of opposition: Emphatically avenged the Schmeling defeat. Improved on his results against Conn and Walcott. ATGs: Conn, Walcott, Charles, Marciano.
3. Notable omissions/losses: None. Although he lost a few times and a smaller Conn gave him a scare, I don’t devalue a fighter for their lack of an undefeated record. TMT dig here.
4. Ability as a fighter: unquestioned. If a trainer wants to use video to teach a fighter how to throw a left hook, he pops in Louis highlights.
5. Historical significance: in addition to the 1st point above, Louis was a war hero, rightfully buried at Arlington National Cemetary. He was also the 1st black HW champion that white Americans supported.

LEWIS:
1. Undisputed, lost to Rahman, immediately avenged his defeat to reclaim his titles, maintained them until his retirement.
2. Beat Holyfield twice, once for the record books and once for the incompetent crooks (judges). Toyed with your idol. Vitali Klitschko. He also destroyed Ruddock, a fighter you Tyson nuts lean on when trying to bolster Tyson’s standing.
3. The only omission that comes to mind was the fight against Bowe, although we all know Lennox wanted the fight. Lewis avenged his losses, unlike Armbar Mike Tyson.
4. Unquestionably mentioned as one of the smartest boxers ever. Olympic Gold Medalist. Undisputed champion. Defeated every professional opponent he ever faced. One of the best jabs the HW division ever saw.
5. The most dominant HW of his era. The last HW to hold the undisputed HW title, a feat that hasn’t been accomplished since 2003.

I look forward to your rebuttal, AluminumChamp j/k.