Could Ezzard Charles, on performance enhancing drugs, equal Holyfield's record?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 7, 2018.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Charles always reminded me of what Holyfield might have looked like before modern training, steroids, etc.

    Let's say that Charles gets the same substances, training with Haney and Hatfield, and so on that Evander did, and he bulks up to heavyweight in the early 90s. Could Charles perform as well in the 90s and early 2000s heavyweight division as Holyfield did?
     
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  2. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I tend to agree.
     
  4. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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  5. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The only caveat is would his chin fare as well as Holyfield's did?
     
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  6. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Charles is also less easy to hit than Evander, so, it may not be as critical that his chin be equal to Evander.
     
  7. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed that he is a better defensive fighter - however, this is the one division where one punch can change everything.

    If I take a roided Charles and put him in with old Foreman, Bowe, Lewis and Tyson, assuming that he takes Holyfield's career path, I know that he gets touched at some point and I'm not so sure that he takes the punch as well.
     
  8. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    There are so many guys that I would love to of seen using current nutrition and pharmacology! Joe Frazier with two working out is a good shoulder and on the juice! Get out of here ! Sonny Liston after a couple of cycles and sober!George foreman juiced and hydrated!
     
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  9. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ali might have been an enthusiastic consumer, based on his use of diet pills and other potions. Innovative guy in a lot of ways; I think he even employed karate people to help him prep sometimes, which is very odd in a traditionalist sport like boxing.

    Roided Ali would be a nightmare to fight. :eek:
     
  10. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    Arnold Schwarzenegger talks about meeting Ali in the later 70s I believe. After seeing how difficult it was to push Arnold he was very impressed. Part of the problem is that You’d have to make sure that you have the correct person consulting with him as evidenced by what he was doing before the Holmes fight.

    I’m of the belief that post lay off early or maybe not as fast benefited from being mature and stronger and in some ways actually benefited him against guys like Joe Frazier. Imagine Muhammad Ali 67 with 30 pounds more muscle and just as fast! Turn off the lights and say good night!
     
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  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Put him on the same program Hatfield had Evander using before Tyson. Come into the ring circa 220ish with no excess fat. Even aside from the heavier shots, he'd be ragdolling people in clinches.
     
  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Well I'm sure that Holyfield chin improved when he moved up. I doubt that he at 185-190 pounds would have took a heavyweight power punch as well.
     
  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Some of it was probably built-in and neurological, though. Some people's brains are just harder to switch off with punches than others'.
     
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  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Charles would have boxed rings around the Foreman of the 90`s with roids or without them, he also would have boxed rings around Morrison or any other puncher during the 90`s if he`s roided up.
     
  15. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not arguing that Charles was a great fighter. You’ll never hear me argue it and he’s one of my favourites, above Holyfield.

    What I am arguing is that no matter how good he is, he will get tagged. Floyd and RJJ got tagged and their speed and reflex was unreal. What Charles showed me versus Jersey Joe is if you catch him clean you can sleep him.

    I’m not sure that Charles could face Old Foreman, Lewis, Bowe, Tyson and anybody else you care to bring from Holyfield’s record and not get caught clean. The question that I have is:

    When he is caught clean, and he will get caught at some point during the career, even with the PEDs, how does his chin fare in relation to Evan Fields’ own?
     
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