Punching mechanics midsection stretch kinetic chain

Angelo Dundee once said that punchers are different from non punchers down to mentality. He reckons a puncher is more confident to throw and wants to ko you !!!!!

 

I would love to see how an elite boxers do in that test.. “Overhead Squats.” I thought he was joking. Sure, I had done a few and I thought they never really amounted to anything. “This coach in California won’t let his guys throw until they can do fifteen reps with bodyweight.” What? Fifteen? “It makes you one piece, an animal.”

 

they would probably do slightly better than the rest of us. a boxers training focuses on endurance and not strength, and their training isolates only certain groups of muscles so that only specific movements are at an elite level. overhead squats require lots of strength in other muscles that boxers dont normally train. they are in better shape than the rest of us, but not so much in the general strength dpt. for example, the conditioning of a fighters thighs comes from roadwork and is designed for aerobic work, whereas overhead squats require raw strength in the thighs to lift more than your body weight.

 

Hello, my name is Adam Ramos. I am an inventor in the prosthetics field. Likewise, I am an engineer, chemist, and kinesiologist. I have been on Showtime, Discover, Chan 4, TLC, Netflix, and my work can be seen on CBS's CSI.

I have in the past tried to discuss kinematic chains, kinematic links, and how kinetic energy flows through the body on this forum, but it seems to me boxing fans don't have any interest in seeing the physics of from the perspective of a physicist so I dropped it.

Jack Dempsey in his book Championship Boxing: Explosive Punching with an Aggressive Defense puts the kinesiology of powerful punches into boxing terms in a very easy to understand manner when he's speaking about " Powerline ". Jack Dempsey's powerline is physics' kinematic chain.

Kinematic Chain and Kinematic Link not Kinetic Chain or Kinetic Link. I know...I'm kinda splitting hairs with that, but it may help you when putting terms into a search.


If anyone wants me to go into the physics of punching more I will, but, let me be clear; we are not equals when it comes to this field of study and I'll not pretend like we are. If you want to prove some tired old boxing adage that has never been scientifically tested by arguing semantics I am not here to entertain that kind of stupid in reference to this subject.

 

Kind of opened myself up for that. What I meant was you should start with Jack Dempsey's book and if you have questions I would answer them, but I did word that post like a know-it-all so I reckon I put it on myself to do this from scratch.

At first this might seem really patronizing, just stick with me I promise I'm going somewhere. I will do my best to explain in boxing terms.

Of course you know a punch starts at the foot and ends at the knuckle. This is true for boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, traditional martial art, mixed martial arts, and any other form of combat sports I've ever encountered. Of course it's true that during the movement the muscle groups that link foot to knuckle will be employed for the task and how they are employed will have an affect on the outcome of the punch.

However, what I do not often hear or see discussed by fans that is absolutely more important to the end result of a punch is the bone structure of the puncher. Curiously bone structure does represent quite a lot of what makes boxing punches different from Martial Arts punches. Your muscle are responsible for the generation of energy but what is responsible for the transmission of energy is the skeletal system. You can see the difference in the difference in traditional martial arts strikes and traditional boxing strikes for how it looks in humans, but for the purpose of explaining a kinematic chain and the flow of kinetic energy the best thing to look to is a Newton's cradle. Your muscles can generate all the energy on the planet but if you don't have a pure powerline or kinematic chain to carry that energy it is only going to rob you of stamina.

A newton's Cradle is already aligned for pure kinematic chains. If you take a ball and swing it directing into the body of resting balls you will see as pure a transfer of energy as the cradle can manage. If you take the starter ball and swing it in a circular motion so that it smacks the body of balls in an elliptical pattern you will see the effects of an impure powerline or fragmented kinematic chain. Remember we're talking about the alignment of the bones in the puncher not how directed the energy of the punch into its target was. The Cradle represents the skeletal structure of the puncher alone.

Ok back to TMA and Boxing. In boxing fighters, even those who do not possess great power, will look to adhere to the powerline for the most part. That's why hooks are meant to have a 90 degree bend at the elbow. This is because boxing is based on war and it's punches were originally training for axe and sword wielding warriors while TMA is mostly centered around doing just enough damage to hurt or incapacitate so that you can get away. It isn't until the 1790s that the idea of not trying to take the other guy's head off really took hold. Because of that what is thought of as a jab is pretty universal from a bone alignment point of view. Think of the classic body blow or dude behind me punch by Bruce Lee. You know, the classic back hand but he does. You know his fist can only bounce off it's target rather than driving energy into his target because if energy is going into the back of his fist he has no structure to direct it into his elbow. This important because for every action there is an equal opposite reaction. So if you do not have the structure in place to receive and redirect the energy from your opponent caused by your strike the strike will just bounce off. When you see boxers punches just bounce off rather than drive through this is why.

Alright so now we know TMA and subsequently MMA have strikes whose powerline or kinematic chains are impure and why from a boxer's perspective those strikes are weak. I'd imagine this is also why Floyd walked down Conor; Conor had nothing for Floyd to respect. We also know why even a feather fisted boxer will take your head off if you give it to him. His punches were originally trained and conceived for murder, not winning, not self defense. Why is then some boxers hit harder than others? Because of load and trajectory.

You prompted this by asking if a specific kinematic chain can be blamed or attributed to power. I'd say no, not one specific one. What a pure boxer will refuse to do that a puncher will gladly do is give up defense for offense. When speaking about striking this can only mean one thing; load. Let's keep it simple, take the jab. You are not meant to draw back before firing the jab, but if you do draw back you will get more potential and thereby kinetic energy if you didn't. The problem with drawing is your opponent will see the tell and react while you defense is nerf'd by having your hands where they should not be.

Not all feather fists have pure powerlines, some of them don't and that's absolutely why they are feather fisted. Not everyone with a pure powerline brings the ruckus. They can but they are too worried about defense to get as much power as they can. A man who is not so concerned with defense and so is willing to use the full extent of their muscle group while keeping their bone alignment pure is going to cause major damage.




Basics: Power in generated at the foot, carried through the body and out of the fist onto the target. The target sends the reaction wave through the fist to the foot where it bounces off the ground and travels back from the foot through the fist to finally be absorbed by the target.


I ran out of time while typing. I'll come back when I can and read this. If it's **** I'll give it an edit.

 

It’s not a theory, it’s simple biomechanics. In a sequential movement the previous, larger section needs to stop to provide stretch/recoil to exponentially accelerate the next smaller segment.

 

Bones have precisely zero to do with punching power. Alignment is relevant in that you should be balanced to provide a direct line of force. It’s not muscle either, it’s primarily the tendons that are responsible for generating most of the power. Again this is just basic human movement. It’s the stretch and the recoil of the tendons. A large part of weight trainings benefits aren’t anything to do with muscle, it’s the stiffening of the relevant tendons. Thick elastic bands snapping. Stiff tendons and coordinated sequential movement with good separation/x factor of the hips and shoulders.
No need to babble on about warrior **** and all that nonsense, boxers are just weak humans practicing a movement. There’s plenty of research in sports like golf and baseball.

[url]http://www.mytpi.com/articles/fitness/x-factor_essentials_what_it_is_and_how_to_train_it[/url]

 

you are the worst type of dumbass, the kind thats convinced that the 1 article he reads makes him an expert on stuff he does not understand. bones have zero to do with punching power? or muscle? you regurgitate words that mean nothing to your understanding.

 

Dont believe anyone that says they know why some guys have power and some dont. Its all speculation as no none actually knows. If they did theyd be filthy rich. I once read that power came from how strong your wrist was which keeps your fist aligned with your forearm instead of get out of line on impact when your wrist bends dissapating alot of the energy. I thought this was a pretty good explanation but again, its just speculative.

 

thats like arguing that the most important factor in winning the indy 500 is a good wheel alignment. theres a lot more to it.