If You Had To Prove You Were P4P Every Year

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by OvidsExile, Sep 9, 2018.


  1. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    It bugs me when I see fighters doing next to nothing most of the years they are considered p4p; so I thought, what if every year your credit got set to zero and you were only judged on what you did in that time? Every fighter is in a race to achieve the most in a year, and depending on how much they achieve, that's their rank. Not what they did last year, or what they are potentially capable of if maybe. You don't get credit for what you did five years ago. You don't get tenure for the lean years. There's no benefit of the doubt when you take time off or fight mediocre opponents. Under this criteria you are encouraged to go out there and make things happen. Get after it hard. No sick days. No resting on your laurels. Everybody has the same year to do as much as they can. Losses aren't penalized, just like you don't count punches that missed. Most p4p lists penalize people for taking chances and fighting the best. Consequently they are rewarding playing it safe and underachieving.

    Here's how I think the p4p lists would look each year from 2000 on. Here are our MVPs.
    2000
    1.Shane Mosley – De La Hoya, Willy Wise, Antonio Diaz
    2.Erik Morales -Marco Antonio Barrera, Kevin Kelley, Mike Juarez, Rodney Jones
    3.Lennox Lewis- Michael Grant, David Tua, Frans Botha
    4.Felix Trinidad – Fernando Vargas, David Reid, Mamadou Thiam
    5.Floyd Mayweather Jr- Emmanuel Augustus, Gregorio Vargas
    6.Kostya Tszyu -Julio Cesar Chavez, Ahmed Santos
    7.Roy Jones Jr – Richard Hall, David Telesco, Eric Harding
    8.Naseem Hamed – Augie Sanchez, Vuyani Bungu
    9.Joe Calzaghe -Richie Woodhall, Omar Sheika, David Starie
    10.Manny Pacquiao -Nedal Hussein, Seung-kon Chae, Arnel Barotillo
    11.Marco Antonio Barrera – Luis Freitas, Jose Valbuena, Jesus Salud
    12.Bernard Hopkins – Syd Vanderpool, Antwun Echols
    13.Wladimir Klitschko – Chris Byrd, Monte Barrett, David Bostace, Paea Wolfgram
    14.Oscar De La Hoya -Derrell Coley
    15.Ricardo Lopez -Phothong
    2001
    1.Bernard Hopkins -Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad
    2.Floyd Mayweather Jr- Diego Corrales, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez
    3.Marco Antonio Barrera -Naseem Hamed, Enrique Sanchez
    4.Kostya Tszyu – Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell, Urkal
    5.Felix Trinidad – William Joppy
    6.Rafael Marquez – Mark Johnson, Gerardo Espinoza
    7.Manny Pacquiao -Lehlo Ledwaba, Foijan Prawet, Senrima
    8.Oscar De La Hoya -Arturo Gatti, Javier Castillejo
    9.Erik Morales- Guty Espadas Jr, In Jin Chi
    10.Lennox Lewis -Hasim Rahman
    11.Shane Mosley – Shannon Taylor, Adrien Stone
    12.Roy Jones Jr – Dereck Harmon, Julio Cesar Gonzalez
    13.Joe Calzaghe – Mario Veit, Will McIntyre
    14.Wladimir Klitschko – Derrick Jefferson, Charles Shufford
    15.Ricardo Lopez -Petelo
    2002
    1.Vernon Forrest – Shane Mosley x2
    2.Marco Antonio Barrera -Erik Morales, Johnny Tapia
    3.Felix Trinidad – Ricardo Mayorga, Hacine Cherifi
    4.Oscar De La Hoya – Fernando Vargas
    5.Floyd Mayweather Jr – Jose Luis Castillo
    6.Rafael Marquez -Mark Johnson, Jorge Otero
    7.Erik Morales – Paulie Ayala
    8.Lennox Lewis -Mike Tyson
    9.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam -Daisuke Naito, Jesus Martinez, Honda
    10.Wladimir Klitschko – Frans Botha, Ray Mercer, Jameel McCline
    11.Roy Jones Jr – Glen Kelly, Clinton Woods
    12.Bernard Hopkins -Carl Daniels
    13.Joe Calzaghe -Charles Brewer, Miguel Jimenez, Tocker Pudwill
    14.Manny Pacquiao -Jorge Julio, Rakkiatgym
    15.Kostya Tszyu – Ben Tackie
    2003
    1.James Toney – Vassily Jirov, Evander Holyfield
    2.Roy Jones Jr – John Ruiz, Antonio Tarver
    3.Manny Pacquiao -Marco Antonio Barrera, Lucero, Yeshmagambetov
    4.Oscar De La Hoya -Shane Mosley, Luis Ramon Campas
    5.Bernard Hopkins – Morrade Hakkar, William Joppy
    6.Floyd Mayweather Jr -Victoriano Sosa, Philip Ndou
    7.Lennox Lewis -Vitali Klitschko
    8.Erik Morales- Guty Espadas jr, Eddie Croft, Fernando Velardez
    9.Kostya Tszyu – Jesse James Leija
    10.Marco Antonio Barrera -Kevin Kelley
    11.Joe Calzaghe -Byron Mitchell
    12.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam – Hussein Hussein, Mangubat, Acerda
    13.Wladimir Klitschko -Fabio Moli, Dannell Nicholson
    2004
    1.Marco Antonio Barrera -Paulie Ayala, Erik Morales
    2.Manny Pacquiao- Juan Manuel Marquez, Pirang
    3.James Toney -Rydell Booker, John Ruiz
    4.Bernard Hopkins – Oscar De La Hoya, Robert Allen
    5.Diego Corrales -Acelino Freitas, Joel Casamayor
    6.Floyd Mayweather Jr -Demarcus Corley
    7.Erik Morales – Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez
    8.Kostya Tszyu -Sharmba Mitchell
    9.Juan Manuel Marquez -Orlando Salido
    10.Vitali Klitschko – Corrie Sanders, Danny Williams
    11.Joe Calzaghe -Mkerchyan, Salem
    12.Wladimir Klitschko – Davarryl Williamson
    2005
    1.Erik Morales -Manny Pacquiao
    2.Ricky Hatton – Kostya Tszyu, Carlos Maussa
    3.Floyd Mayweather Jr – Arturo Gatti, Henry Bruseles, Sharmba Mitchell
    4.Diego Corrales -Jose Luis Castillo
    5.Miguel Cotto – Demarcus Corley, Abdullaev, Ricardo Torres
    6.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam -Daisuke Naito, Komatsu, Sales, Balabat
    7.Chris John – Derrick Gainer, Tommy Browne
    8.Celestino Cabbalero – Daniel Ponce De Leon, Valbuena, Ortega
    9.Wladimir Klitschko – Samuel Peter, Eli Castillo
    10.Shane Mosley – David Estrada, Jose Luis Cruz
    11.Marco Antonio Barrera -Mzonke Fana, Robbie Peden
    12.Joe Calzaghe -Veit, Ashira
    13.Manny Pacquiao- Hector Velazquez
    14.Juan Manuel Marquez -Victor Polo
    15.Bernard Hopkins – Howard Eastman
    2006
    1.Manny Pacquiao- Erik Morales x2, Oscar Larios
    2.Floyd Mayweather Jr – Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir
    3.Chris John – Juan Manuel Marquez, Acosta
    4.Shane Mosley – Fernando Vargas x2
    5.Joe Calzaghe – Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika
    6.Miguel Cotto – Gianluca Branco, Paulie Malignaggi, Carlos Quintana
    7.Bernard Hopkins – Antonio Tarver
    8.Oscar De La Hoya – Ricardo Mayorga
    9.Marco Antonio Barrera – Rocky Juarez x2
    10.Celestino Cabbalero – Somsak Sithchatawal, Bonilla,
    11.Juan Manuel Marquez -Jandaeng, Jaca
    12.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam -Nakahiro, Morales, Myekeni
    13.Wladimir Klitschko – Chris Byrd, Calvin Brock
    14.Ricky Hatton – Luis Collazo
    15.Edwin Valero – Mosquera, Trazancos
    2007
    1.Floyd Mayweather Jr -Oscar De la Hoya, Ricky Hatton
    2.Manny Pacquiao- Marco Antonio Barrera, Jorge Solis
    3.Juan Manuel Marquez -Marco Antonio Barrera, Rocky Juarez
    4.Miguel Cotto- Shane Mosley, Zab Judah, Oktay Urkal
    5.Joe Calzaghe- Peter Manfredo, Mikkel Kessler
    6.Bernard Hopkins – Winky Wright
    7.Ricky Hatton – Jose Luis Castillo, Juan Urango
    8.Rafael Marquez – Israel Vazquez
    9.Nonito Donaire – Vic Darchinyan, Hudgins, Maldonado
    10.Shane Mosley -Luis Collazo
    11.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam – Amisa, Megrino, Shimizu, Sisnorio
    12.Wladimir Klitschko – Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster
    13.Chris John – Rojas, Takemoto
    14.Celestino Cabbalero – R. Castillo, Lacierva, Pastrana
    15.Edwin Valero – Lozada, Honmo, Zavaleta
    2008
    1.Manny Pacquiao -Oscar De La Hoya, Juan Manuel Marquez, David Diaz
    2.Shane Mosley -Ricardo Mayorga, Antonio Margarito
    3.James Toney -Hasim Rahman, Fres Oquendo
    4.Joe Calzaghe- Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr
    5.Bernard Hopkins -Kelly Pavlik
    6.Wladimir Klitschko – Sultan Ibragimov, Hasim Rahman, Tony Thompson
    7.Juan Manuel Marquez – Joel Casamayor
    8.Vitali Klitschko – Samuel Peter
    9.Miguel Cotto – Alfonso Gomez
    10.Chris John – Roinet Caballero, Enoki
    11.Celestino Cabbalero – Meija, Parra, Molitor
    12.Edwin Valero - Shimada
    13.Nonito Donaire -Mthalane
    2009
    1.Manny Pacquiao – Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto
    2.Sergio Martinez – Kermit Cintron, Paul Williams
    3.Andre Ward – Mikkel Kessler, Pudwell, Miranda, Buchanan
    4.Floyd Mayweather Jr- Juan Manuel Marquez
    5.Miguel Cotto – Michael Jennings, Joshua Clottey
    6.Juan Manuel Marquez – Juan Diaz
    7.Chris John – Rocky Juarez
    8.Wladimir Klitschko – Ruslan Chagaev
    9.Celestino Cabbalero – Mathebula, Leal
    10.Edwin Valero – Pitalua, Velazquez
    11.Nonito Donaire – Rafael Conception, Rauel Martinez
    12.Vitali Klitschko – Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Juan Carlos Gomez
    13.Bernard Hopkins – Enrique Ornelas
    2010
    1.Sergio Martinez – Kelly Pavlik, Paul Williams
    2.Manny Pacquiao – Joshua Clottey, Antonio Margarito
    3.Floyd Mayweather Jr- Shane Mosley
    4.Juan Manuel Marquez – Juan Diaz, Michael Katsidis
    5.Andre Ward – Sakio Bika, Allan Green
    6.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam -Koki Kameda, Suriyan Kaikanha
    7.Wladimir Klitschko – Eddie Chambers, Samuel Peter
    8.Vitali Klitschko – Shannon Briggs, Sosnowski
    9.Edwin Valero – Antonio Demarco
    10.Nonito Donaire – Manuel Vargas, Hernan Marquez, Sydorenko
    11.Guillermo Rigondeaux – Ricardo Cardoba, Beranza, Landeros
    12.Bernard Hopkins -Roy Jones Jr
    13.Miguel Cotto – Yuri Foreman
    14.Chris John – Saucedo
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  2. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    2011
    1.Andre Ward – Carl Froch, Arthur Abraham
    2.Juan Manuel Marquez -Manny Pacquiao, Likar Ramos
    3.Miguel Cotto – Ricardo Mayorga, Antonio Margarito
    4.Nonito Donaire – Fernando Montiel, Omar Narvaez
    5.Bernard Hopkins – Jean Pascal
    6.Manny Pacquiao -Shane Mosley
    7.Lara – Paul Williams, Carlos Molina, Raines
    8.Bradley – Devon Alexander, Joel Casamayor
    9.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam – Edgar Sosa, Kogawa
    10.Wladimir Klitschko - David Haye
    11.Vitali Klitschko – Odlanier Solis, Tomasz Adamek
    12.Sergio Martinez – Dzinzurik, Barker
    13.Chris John – Yordan, Merdov
    14.Guillermo Rigondeaux – Willie Casey
    2012
    1.Donaire- Vazquez, Mathebula, Nishioka, Arce
    2.Marquez- Fedchenko, Pacquiao
    3.Gonzalez- Jimenez, Hirales, Monterrosa, Estrada
    4.Ward- Chad Dawson
    5.Mayweather- Miguel Cotto
    6.Martinez- Macklin, Chavez Jr.
    7.Pacquiao- Tim Bradley
    8.Canelo- Mosley, Lopez
    9.Froch- Bute, Mack
    10.Rigondeaux- Ramos, Kennedy, Marroquin
    11.Golovkin- Fuchigami, Proksa
    12.Kovalev- Boone, Thompson
    2013
    1.Rigondeaux- Nonito Donaire, Joseph Agbeko
    2.Mayweather- Robert Guerrero, Canelo Alvarez
    3.Donaire- Vic Darchinyan
    4.Golovkin- Rosado, Ishida, Macklin, Stevens
    5.Froch- Kessler, Groves
    6.Garcia- Salido, Lopez, Martinez
    7.Kovalev- Campillo, White, Cleverly, Sillakh
    8.Lara- Angulo, Trout
    9.Klitschko- Pianetta, Povetkin
    10.Canelo- Trout
    11.Inoue- Sano, Taguchi, Mancio
    12.Pacquiao- Brandon Rios
    13.Ward- Edwin Rodriguez
    14.Gonzalez- Barrera, Rodriguez, Blanquet
    15.Lomachenko- Ramirez
    2014
    1.Lara- Canelo, Smith
    2.Gonzalez- Kantun, Purisima, Yaegashi, Fuentes
    3.Inoue- Hernandez, Kokietgym, Narvaez
    4.Rigondeaux- Kokietgym, Amagasa
    5.Golovkin- Adama, Geale, Rubio
    6.Crawford -Burns, Gamboa, Beltran
    7.Pacquiao- Tim Bradley, Algieri
    8.Mayweather- Marcos Maidana x2
    9.Lomachenko- Russell, Piriyapinyo
    10.Kovalev- Agnew, Caparello, Hopkins
    11.Froch- Groves
    12.Canelo- Angulo
    13.Klitschko- Leapai, Pulev
    14.Donaire- Vetyeka
    15.Garcia- Burgos
    2015
    1.Gonzalez- Leon, Sosa, Viloria
    2.Golovkin- Murray, Monroe, Lemieux
    3.Mayweather- Pacquiao, Berto
    4.Canelo- Kirkland, Cotto
    5.Kovalev- Pascal, Mohammedi
    6.Lomachenko- Rodriguez, Koasicha
    7.Crawford- Dulorme, Jean
    8.Ward- Paul Smith
    9.Rigondeaux- Francisco
    10.Lara- Rodriguez, Zaveck
    11.Inoue- Parrenas
    2016
    1.Kovalev- Pascal, Chilemba, Ward
    2.Gonzalez- Arroyo, Cuadras
    3.Lomachenko- Martinez, Walters
    4.Golovkin- Wade, Brook
    5.Ward- Barrera, Brand,
    6.Usyk – Mchunu, Glowacki
    7.Crawford- Lundy, Postol
    8.Charlo- Williams, Trout
    9.Canelo- Khan, Smith
    10.Pacquiao- Tim Bradley, Jesse Vargas
    11.Inoue- Carmona, Kokietgym, Kono
    12.Thurman- Porter
    13.Lara- Martirosyan
    14.Rigondeaux- ****ens
    15.Garcia- Elio Rojas
    2017
    1.Golovkin- Jacobs, Canelo
    2.Rungvisai- Gonzalez
    3.Gonzalez- Rungvisai
    4.Joshua - Klitschko, Takam
    5.Garcia- Broner, Zlaticanan
    6.Crawford – Molina, Diaz, Indongo
    7.Lomachenko- Sosa, Marriaga
    8.Santa Cruz- Frampton, Avalos
    9.Usyk – Huck, Hunter
    10.Spence- Kell Brook
    11.Estrada- Cuadras, Salas
    12.Thurman- Garcia
    13.Inoue- Rodriguez, Nieves, Boyeaux
    14.Kovalev- Shabransky
    15.Canelo- Chavez Jr
    16.Lara- Foreman, Gausha
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  3. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    The P4P list is just US boxing propaganda for the most part.

    Errol Spence is ranked 8th.....For what? Beating Brook? Was Brook top 10 before he beat him? No.

    Terence Crawford is ranked 3rd......For what? Beating Postol?


    Yet when Fury beat Klitschko, who was P4P top 10, Why didn't Fury get into the top 10?



    It's just rubbish that I wouldn't bother with.
     
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  4. Mynydd

    Mynydd Member Full Member

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    So you only watch heavyweight fights?
     
  5. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    That's basically what fighter of the year means.
     
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  6. Tomato(e) Can

    Tomato(e) Can Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao. banned Full Member

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    I like P4P lists. It gives an overall picture of the sport.
     
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  7. Sphillips

    Sphillips Active Member Full Member

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    So Rigo gets ranked top 15 for beating Jazza Dickins?

    You are falling into the same thing yourself.
     
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  8. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Basically, I took the top 15 or so people who had the best p4p potential at the time, and then ranked them according to what they actually accomplished. Rigo had p4p potential in terms of athleticism and skills, but he just failed to do anything with them, so he had a lackluster finish. Same thing happened when I ranked Ricardo Lopez in the early '00s.

    There were a number of years that the guys with the most potential only fought one or two guys who you'd never heard of. I tried to account for that. As long as they beat somebody and didn't take the year off, they got ranked, ranked low but ranked. P4P potential gets you on the top 15 list, but accomplishment decides where you place on it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  9. dinosaurs

    dinosaurs Brachiosaurus Rules Full Member

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    Great list!
     
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  10. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    P4P is meaningless. Just something for fans to argue about.
     
  11. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

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    Does a champion really care about the P4P rating?

    It would not stop the trash jive talking by fighters claiming they are the GOAT, etc etc.
     
  12. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog submit to 'murica cow Full Member

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    :ARMS1: Only way to make it work is to tie it to the money. How do we do that?
     
  13. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    Also the criteria is completely subjective, some guys go by resume, other guys go by skills. And even both of those things are judged subjectively.

    So what you get is a bunch of people just arguing about a very subjective concept.
     
  14. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Skills get you onto the list, resume decides where you place within it.
     
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  15. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    No it isn't, it's just hard to gauge. But the concept is not nonsense at all. For example, the myriad of heavyweight bums (aka top heavies) are light years behind the welterweight division's best.
     
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