Nobody has any right to tell anyone else what to do with their property. Posters definitely have a right to bemoan lack of footage of a given favourite and I suppose it's inevitable that some ire is going to be directed at the people who do have it. Speaking personally i've a huge collection of (non rare) fights and haven't seen all of them twice. I watch 1-5 fresh fights on YT/DM every week and never accidentally stumbled upon the same fight twice, there are so many. People who are desperate to see "Rare" fight films have to ask themselves why? There are literally 3000 really good fights you've never seen free on the internet. Great fights. Then loads and loads more good scraps. Then loads and loads more decent fights. There are also varied, deep cards every weekend. If you want to watch boxing, go watch. Don't worry about what anyone else is watching.
I never expected my comment to trigger such a flamefest. To tell the truth I come down somewhat in the middle. On the one hand I strongly believe in the right to private property and that a guy should be able to do what he wants with his stuff, whatever it is. If I have the original bag of magic beans and I don't want anybody to see it, that's kind of my prerogative. Living in a country where they may well vote shortly that private ownership of land only exists if the state feels like it, and where it may be arbitrarily taken away ad hoc, has really brought that point home to me. On the other hand, these films are a part of our cultural history. They're part of what makes us who we are. Think of the mountain of words we've typed about Greb, and yet we've never seen him throw a punch in anger. If some guy has Greb / Walker and he doesn't want me to see it, well, ok. But if that same guy burns his house down on his deathbed and takes it to hell with him, then I for one do think that he's a month old turd floating in a sewage farm. He's not doing us any favours and he's not doing the fighters any favours either ... he's literally destroying their legacy. **** that guy. I think that's fair.
I said to ME. Its totally unimportant to someone like Intentional Butt who has spent the past 3 pages arguing about something he doesnt care about. I think I made my position clear. Its a sport and a hobby. Its not greatly important to human history. No. If there were an apocalypse tomorrow and I had to start dirty farming to feed my family thats what I would do and I wouldnt even think about boxing. We leave in a leisure society right now that affords me with the ability to enjoy these things and thats what I do. If you are asking how I would feel if someone enjoyed passing their time by specifically burning boxing films, or any film, or any book, etc I would be horrified. I would live and life would go on but it wouldnt sit well with me. Would that ETHICALLY make someone a bad person? I dont know. I dont really think so. I think it would make them stupid and I wouldnt have a whole lot of respect for them but does burning film make them ethically bad? I dont think so. I dont want ANY film burned though. I think film in general, whether its a home movie of someones christmas in 1954 or WTC coming down is all important. Its a piece of time captured for eternity. Its better than a snapshot or having it frozen in amber, you can see it breathe and live and move. Its tragedy when thats lost but its a fact of life, it happens, sometimes for stupidities sake, and you move on.
Not getting into the meat of the argument myself... but if he agreed to, would YOU actually go through with the proposition. It was my understanding that one of the reasons you listed as to why you won't just upload stuff online is because you've given people your word you wouldn't do that with the film you buy from them. So really, if he met your sum.. would you actually go through with it?
No I could give you examples. There are some guys who CRAVE footage on fighters that are literally worthless to me. I wouldnt cross the street for footage of some of those guys. But to them thats what they want and who am I to judge. Im sure some of the guys I look for would make people wonder why I waste my time LOL.
Which then begs the question... What are YOU doing with your stuff after you pass to make sure it's not lost forever?
Im a man of my word and nothing Ive promised others I wouldnt give it will ever get out. As far as Im concerned its theirs and they have last call on it. Im just "renting" it so to speak. I consider myself lucky to see it and thats that. I dont consider those fights "mine." That comprises a very small portion of my collection. Some nice stuff but a very small portion. But beyond that if someone actually wanted to deal with me and work something out that beneficial to both parties and reimbursed me. What they do with it is their choice. My guess though is, in this fantasy we are discussing, someone would come along, offer me all this money with the best of intentions and then as soon as that money is spent and they have the films they would realize "****, this cost a lot of money. Im not giving this away" LOL. When that money leaves your bank account your grip on those films gets tighter. Believe me.
Thats my business but its secure, preserved and taken care of. But luckily Im relatively young so that hopefully wont happen for a while. You arent trying to kill me off are you? LOL
Mr. klompton, besides the topic of this thread, do you know if there exist footage from this figthers?: Eddie Booker Jimmy Bivins (besides the Moore and Charles footage and the other figths on YouTube) Holman Willias (besides the small highlights against Buffalo) Coca kid Harry Greb fighting Kid Tunero Bert Lytell Aaron Wade Jack Chase Thanks for the reply and sorry for my writing as english is not my first language
Booker: No Bivins: Some Williams: Just Buffalo Cocoa Kid: No Greb fighting: No (Ive come SO close several times to finding footage of him but hes elusive) Tunero: Yes Lytell: Yes Wade: I dont think so Chase: Yes
My plan has been foiled!!! LOL. That's cool man, and glad it should be okay. I didn't want specifics, but more just that it was good.
You very well could be right once the money was forked out. I was mainly talking about the "small portion" stuff and that you answered wouldn't be for sale with the collection
Honestly I really get both sides. It's sad so much footage is inaccessible. I don't even mean free, but it's not like you can just go on Amazon and order a load of these fights, and it's certainly not going to help get people into historical boxing. Also people with these rare fights do need to make sure they survive for future generations, considering how many lost films there are already. Plus it's not just the fights themselves, but they help paint a picture of the era. That said, it's so easy to say that when it's not my money I've put into it, and my time. It's obviously such a significant investment. You can't expect someone to give out for free what they've put so much in getting. At they end of the day, they're are the ones who put the time and money getting them, and it's their right to do it, but it pains me to think it could impoverish future generations. I wonder if maybe a crowd funded project to buy these rare films and release them publically could be the solution. That way the people that put the work into getting them are compensated fairly, and people get to see them, and work through getting significant fights. Another option is they keep them for themselves, but agree to have them shared publically when they die, if they are happy to do it.
Thank you for clarifying. For my part, I think that the historical importance of boxing history is objective. Destroying forever the Mona Lisa, or the Great Gatsby, or the last footage of Ali/Frazier I, would be an act that would leave the world lessened. Obviously, it's not remotely as important as preserving your life in a postapocalyptic wasteland or something, but it's important enough that a film bonfire would be wrong. (And on a totally unimportant sidenote, if the apocalypse happened tomorrow and we all became farmers, we'd probably still have village fighting champions of some sort like our ancestors did, who we'd watch once a year or something in rare leisure hours, and tell stories about.)
