Canelo v. Hagler's Top Middleweight Opponents?

Sorry, meant Sims.

About equal chin and power probably, but Canelo being much sharper and a much better combination puncher. Over all Canelo has the far superior skill set. Barkley's advantages lies in reach and height.

And let's not forget that old Leonard and Roldan also came close to KO'ing Hearns. That doesn't mean that Canelo would be certain to actually doing it, but not standing a chance? I just can't see that at all.

 

Mixed (mostly good) against mostly first rate opposition. He didn’t get sparked out early like Hearns did twice or lose to Robbie Simms like Duran did. He gave GGG his rematch, but Leonard ducked Hagler.

 

I qualified my statement on his chances with “Canelo hasn't demonstrated enough at Middleweight”. Maybe he will in future, but as yet, I don’t think it unreasonable to doubt him against much more proven fighters.

 

And this somehow helps Canelo’s head-to-head chances with Hearns and Duran?

If you say so. I disagree.

 

Duran certainly isn't much more proven at MW. Nor is Hearns, really. Leonard has the best win, but I wouldn't say that makes him much more proven.

But anyhow, I didn't react against that you'd favor them against Canelo, I reacted against that he wouldn't "stand a chance" against them.

 

Fine. I still say Canelo hasn’t done enough at Middleweight yet and I very much doubt Canelo could last 15 rounds against Hagler, let alone make real fight of it. Heck, I’d fancy Barkley to hurt and probably beat Canelo. So, whether or not I think he’d ‘stand a chance’ against Duran and Hearns is really not even a debate for me, at the moment.

 

Well, we disagree then. If there's one guy I believe really is tailor made for Canelo then it's Barkley. He'd beat him up Toney style, I think.

And I don't at all doubt Canelo could last 15 with Hagler. He's got very good defense and a monster chin.

In fact, I think Canelo is a better MW than blown up past prime Duran. Roberto had more experience and even higher ring IQ, but Canelo is also a very crafty fighter and physically quite a bit superior to that version of Duran.

 

We do disagree, indeed.

I’m not quite sure where you draw your faith in Canelo from, but I’d have at least preferred to have seen him go 12 rounds, without fading down the stretch, before thinking he could manage 15 rounds with Hagler.

 

I draw my faith from him taking some brutal punches from a murderous punches like GGG without even buckling at the knees. Everyone else who has been hit by those punches have at least gone down, in most cases been stopped, but not Canelo. That uppercut he ate in the 12th was absolutely monstrous, but he hardly blinked. Absolutely superb chin.

 

I wasn’t referring to Canelo’s chin as the issue. As for a ‘murderous’ punching Golovkin, I think that reputation requires some re-evaluation...

...Either way, Canelo’s ability to take a dig or two doesn’t change the fact that he fades down the stretch of 12-round bouts. So, all the same, I’d bet against him lasting 15 against a faster-paced, more prolific and accurate punching Hagler.

 

GGG is a "murderous" puncher against C and B- level aka cannon fodder but the moment he stepped up while KO'ing heavyweights in sparring, lol,he struggled and his so called puncher power was overrated to the max......all those Red Army fighters are made out to be some "killers" but in the real world they fall way short of their advertised abilities......Jirov, K brothers, Krusher and Povetkin aint got no plan B when facing a skilled A level fighter....all their losses are either robberies, corruption, "won the event", drugged etc etc are excuses by their deranged Groupies.

Fact: GGG was not able to beat Canelo decisively in two outings.......unless you are Ringside you have zero business scoring a fight.

Fact: At a 154 catchweight a younger Mayweather would have boxed GGG's ears off.

 

You think GGG:s punching should be revaluated because Canelo could take his best? Why? That's seems designed to rob Canelo of credit for taking them. No one else has taken GGG:s best like that. So the logical thing would be to see it as Canelo's chin being underrated rather than GGG:s power overrated.

Can't remember seeing Canelo fading down the stretch against anyone other than GGG, who keeps a very high pressure and work rate. And it was mostly in their first fight he looked tired.

And 12 rds isn't as simple as a 15 rounder minus 3 rounds. When you go those extra 3 rds you pace yourself differently. Hagler went only two full 15 rounders as far as I can see (Vito and Duran) and neither was that fast paced except in stretches. Actually, against Vito it was Hagler who faded down the stretch. I don't see Canelo faltering and not seeing the finish in either of those two.

 

What a convenient assumption on your part.

I'd say that, if you can't think of a different reason why Golovkin's "reputation" as a "murderous" puncher might need re-evaluating, then it would seem you're becoming blinkered.

Alvarez has stamina issues. That's been a discussion point for years. If you think Golovkin brought pressure (which he didn't bring over the weekend, until Alvarez had tired going into the championship rounds) then imagine what he's going to feel like under the stern, concentrated fists of Hagler over 15-rounds.

LOL - but, to you, it is as simple as pacing yourself for 15 instead of 12?

If Canelo has problems marshaling his energies for 12 rounds, what magic do you think would need to be in play, in order for him to, a) not reduce his activity-level and/or, b) not fade in the last third of the fight, over 15 rounds?

If you think the activity-level in Hagler's 15-round fights is remotely comparable to what one could consider Canelo's most taxing fights over 12, then I don't know what else to say. Alvarez wouldn't have seen the final bell against Hagler and I'd have stacked a small fortune on that outcome.

 

What would that reason be?

Based on what?

None of the two opponents that went past 12 with Hagler weren't even close to being stopped. In fact one of them got the better of those rounds.

Doesn't have to be simple to put it into practice, but that's how it works. A pro fighter paces himself differently depending on the the amount of rounds. That this even needs to be explained to you...

He won the fight this weekend by winning the last round on two of the judges' cards. In other words he had left enough in the tank to win, to be the first to beat GGG. I see no problems there.

And as I've tried to explain to you earlier, had the fight been three rounds longer both he and GGG would have paced themselves differently.

In both Hagler's 15 round fights, he clearly paced himself. So I don't know why you wouldn't be familiar with that fighters do that.

There are a few bets I'd like to take against you if they were possible to make. That and, especially, that Barkley would beat Canelo.

 

3G cannot beat elite, so logically the eliters or above are his defeats.

These include aside from the ATGs -

Vito
Minter
Mugabi
maybe Obelmaijas

but I think 3G beats Sugar Ray handily, due to stylistic advantage. In fact if he comes to fight then he stops Ray very early, GGG's punches will shatter his chin.