I'm not convinced that AJ easily beats Louis or Liston anymore

I thought the fight was pretty even before the stoppage.Joshua having problems with Povetkin is no disgrace imo everyone except Wlad has and Wlad was disgraceful that night.
I don't see greatness in AJ,but if he beats Wilder,Miller,Ortiz ,and the rest he might elevate himself quite a bit,maybe as far as to top 15 all time?

 

Here is the thing.

While the rankings are not entirely accurate, they are not entirely inaccurate either.

If you compared two fighters from adjacent era, based on how Ring Magazine Ranked their opponents, then you are at least being even handed.

Personally I think that Martin was just in the right place at the right time, and that time was going to catch up with Povetkin any day now.

Wlad was probably still the best opponent available, and Parker probably was one of the better challengers around.

 

Some well taken points,but how about if your best opponents are 38 years old and 38/40? Lets have some context, Marciano's 22 nd opponent was 18-10-0 Joe Dominic who, after losing to Rocky was ko'd by9-10-1 Art Henri and then retired.Personally I'd take the Wlad A J fought to stop any of Rocky's opponents.

 

I think people are too down on AJ in this thread.

It was a good performance, a tough fight, and a hard earned win.
Then again, I never thought he was the next GOAT like some.

 

Do you see a comparison with Marciano though? Both beating old fighters who still happen to be among the worlds best. Wlad and Povetkin are older than Louis, Walcott and Moore and unlike Rocky AJ has every conceivable physical advantage over them.

 

I found Joshuas performance and tactics very interesting in this fight.

As the rounds progressed, Joshua strayed further away from his upright high guard style.
He started getting low, making himself smaller, and used the type of guard Savold and Charles used, keeping his left low, his right up, and his lead shoulder for angle evasiveness.

It gave me hope for Joshua boxing ability, and gave me lost hope for the way certain analysts here believe a man of his size and physical traits should fight.

Also I really liked his usage of feints.
Povetkin had nice feints too.

I remember a time on this forum where it was a popular notion that feints was an old-timer thing that wouldn't work in the bone crushing 90's era.

I've heard people compare AJ to Louis, and when it comes to his punching arsenal, I definitely see some shades there.

 

There was? Personally never seen that. Feints will Always be an integral part of boxing. They were perhaps unusually prominent in Povetkin-Joshua, since a smaller man has to have some good feints to negotiate a way in.

I agree. He has compact and varied punching when he finishes people off. The uppercut is probably his best punch.

 

I think AJ can go on the become an ATG. But he could be KO'd by Wilder and outboxed by Fury as well. But if he can overcome those two without too much controversy I think he'll go on to dominate for a while.

 

Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

Joshua seemed to be setting the pace with the feints after his corner told him to use more of them.

Yeah he has so many good punches. That short overhand/straight right is something too.

 

For me, 41-year old Wlad looked much more like his prime self than 37-year old Louis. He had more bounce in his legs than in almost any other fight and his stamina and timing still looked very good.

Louis, on the other hand, only really had his jab left against Rocky. He looked considerably slower than his prime self. Still a good win for Rocky, though, since Louis still was good fighter.

 

Yeah, a very interesting tactical fight. And as you say, Joshua changed his guard quite a bit. Probably wanted to lure Povetkin into leading so he could counter. That was my thought at the time. And I was worried that he'd get caught since he doesn't really have super fast reflexes. But it seemed to perplex Povetkin a bit.

Joshua had tasted Povetkin's power by then, so he probably felt he could take it if he had to and that it was worth the risk to try and bait him.

 

Joshua was getting caught early.
His nose was bloodied after the first round when Povetkin landed that combo with the uppercut.
Definitely not a good thing for AJ.

And so he seemed to rely more on instinct to not get caught, while staying in control and on top of the fight.
I'm pretty confident that's why he made the adjustment to his guard and overall tactics. As well as the fact that he was preserving tons of stamina while doing so. Joshua was taking tiny steps on the edge of the pocket, pivoting to stay in motion. All while Povetkin was side stepping, constant head movement, and hand feints which uses a lot more energy.

He was probably ready for a toe to toe fight, but after feeling Povetkin out, realized that he could do far better boxing him leaning forward, hands low, and like you said, baiting attacks which he probably felt comfortable enough to evade and counter. By the last round he was really having his way with that style using the body jabs and the head hooks before Povetkin could react to them.

For a man of his size, Joshuas reflexes mixed with his ring IQ impress me.
I think it was round 5 when Povetkin timed a counter attack really well, and Joshua slipped it backwards and then moved away on the outside. A giant can only look so slick doing this, and he looked slick for a giant.

 

I certainly don’t think that has ever been the case. Perhaps Jim Jeffries challenging Johnson must be the only other time such an inactive challenger was given any kind of chance and even then the old boilermaker was not that old. Neither Larry Holmes for Tyson nor Muhammad Ali for Holmes were considered the best out there. So this makes Wlad a unique challenge

 

Also, I think if Povetkin had even better fight IQ and vision, he would've been able to notice the stamina expenditure in comparison to AJs. He could've settled down to more closely match AJs pace, since his constant movement was primarily being used for defensive purposes. His mind was clearly more focused on out-reacting the powerful giant to survive and counter.

Someone like Mayweather, a genius at fight IQ and vision, would never fail to see that. Nothing against Povetkin really, but I think something like that is a tangible reason for why he isn't a class above. But tremendous fighter all the same!

 

I don't think Povetkin was older than Moore,and AJ had no physical advantage over Wlad. I don't want to turn this into a Marciano bashing I'm just mentioning him to get some context about AJ after 22 fights. Everyone is now saying "well Povetkin was small and old".What would they have said if his opponents were a 38 years old 192lbs Walcott and a 38/40 years old 188lbs Moore? The fact that Rocky himself was small doesn't alter the qualities of his challengers does it?