At their prime who would win in a fight between Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano?

Marciano did not invent hard training. In fact, looking at his published training log in the Boston Herald, it didn't seem anything excessive by modern standards. And outside of Bonavena, all the guys you mention are way bigger than Marciano, taller and with much longer reaches, and most are quite a bit quicker.

 

He is a once in a century talent at least.

 

Another short stubby fighter was Dwight Muhammad Qawi whose style was probably closest to Rocky then anyone I can think of. But he lacked his power and stamina and was 3 inches shorter.

 

He would have to be this in order to believe the contentions made about him.

Forgive me if I do not agree.

 

A guy who did absolutely nothing at heavyweight. Thanks for making my point.

 

Well, In around 200 pounds is enough strength. After that there is a lot of freakish mental things that have to take place in a strong body.

The mind I believe is more critical then the body being able to command all those muscles as a single unit, there is no limit how well that can be done.

 

Like I said he lacked the power, endurance, chin (although chin wasn’t bad) and moved up when he was like 35 lol. Took old George 7 rounds which is more then a lot of people and gave ATG Holyfield all he could handle and he wasn’t nearly as good as the Rock. For the record I rate Ali, Louis, Larry and Foreman ahead of him (not that I don’t think he couldn’t take any of them on a given night just more then likely he loses). I just don’t rate him as low as some here. He was a special talent like the others I listed.

 

Hey peeps, my uncle was a bookie so I try n look at these kind of head to head match ups from that perspective.

Rocky can only fight one way, ditto Tyson so they are going to basically come out and try and land bombs on each other. When they collide Mike will have a thirty pounds weight advantage, far superior hand speed and combination punching ability, superior punching power and a better chin. The only categories Rocky holds superiority over Tyson are stamina, overall toughness and heart. Neither fighter is particularly clever or versatile.

Can the Rocky fans tell me how Rocky can overcome these massive disadvantages to beat Tyson ? Its not like Rocky can get on the bike and do a James Tillis let alone a Buster Douglas against Tyson.

Cheers All.

 

Never said he did. Also Haye's 6'3" listing is completely bogus. I met him at Staples Center and he's 183-185 cm at best, which isn't much taller than Marciano.

Haye with Holyfield, who was 6'0.5" in his prime, but has lost a little height.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvpoivJIMAEQdmE.jpg

Bert Cooper was 5'9" like Joe Frazier, Marciano, and Tyson.

Lamon Brewster is nowhere near 6'2" as he is listed. Lamon is 5'11" at most.

Lamon Brewster with 5'11" Arsenio Hall.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/D421GR/ti...ewster-and-arsenio-hall-1995credit-D421GR.jpg

Lamon Brewster with 6'0.5" Chris Byrd
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...r-attend-a-for-picture-id1017965162?s=612x612

Povektin also isn't 6'2", but around 6'0.5" or 6'1" at the most.

Povetkin with 6'0.5" Holyfield
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DAPMFX/bo...aev-fromuzbekistan-l-and-aleksandr-DAPMFX.jpg

 

How would Rocky fight a prime Foreman, Gazelle ?
Its pretty unimaginable to me that a 188 pound swarmer with a 67 inch reach could do anything against the Foreman who smashed Frazier. How can Rocky get inside, its not like he can outbox Foreman like Young and Ali did.

As an aside like Seamus and McVey I rate Marciano as an incredible fighter at his own weight. I just cannot see him competing against thirty pound heavier fighters being at such a large physical disadvantage. Its not like Rocky can outsmart or outbox them.

Cheers.

 

Marciano and Frazier fought nothing alike. Marciano has superior conditioning, better combinations, a better ring IQ, and was more experienced. Basically Marciano was superior to Frazier and even Frazier himself had no problem admitting it. Also, Frazier showed up grossly out of shape in both Foreman fights. Frazier was most effective at 205 or less. Frazier already started getting lazy after beating Ellis by showing up out of shape against Bob Foster, but was able to whip himself back into shape for the $2.5 million payday against Ali in 1971. Afterwards Frazier merely coasted off his name and showed up 10lbs overweight against Foreman in the first fight and was 20lbs overweight in the rematch with Foreman. Marciano never showed up out of shape like that.

Also, Moore pretty much taught Foreman everything he knew and Foreman fought just like Moore, but was 5 inches taller and 25-35 lbs heavier with more power. However, Foreman lacked Moore's ring IQ, ring experience, and adaptability. Marciano figured out Moore, so he'd definitely would figure out his slower and less experienced student, who wasn't any good at pacing himself in the 70's.

A 35 year old 196lb Gregorio Peralta, who even in his prime wasn't half the fighter Marciano was had no problem going the distance with Foreman.

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Levi Forte was easily knocked out by Chuvalo, Patterson, and Jack Bodell, but he easily went the distance with Foreman and even told Ali that Foreman can't handle pressure and punch volume, which was true. Forte said that Foreman could easily be tricked into punching himself out and was a sucker for combinations.

Also, Marciano fought as heavyweight and never fought under any weight restriction.

Jersey Joe Walcott 6'0" 200lbs vs. Hein Ten Hoff 6'3" 219lbs 84 inch reach

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In 1950 Walcott easily knocked out 6'4.5" 216lb Johnny Shkor and outpointed Hoff. 2-3 Years later Marciano beat him into retirement.

A shot Archie Moore 5'10" 186 lbs stopping James J. Parker 6'3" 211lbs

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This was almost a year after Marciano completely ruined Moore, but despite no longer being even half the fighter he once was he easily stopped the much younger and much larger fighter. A shot Moore also had no problem stopping George Parmentier, who was 6'6" 233lbs

Before taking a beating from Marciano Moore had no problem beating Nino Valdez 6'3" 209 lbs, 6'2" 209 lbs, and Leonard Dugan 6'4" 209 lbs. After beating Valdez to become the number one contender Moore was saying all of the same things that critics say about Marciano now, but found out the hard way.

Info on Leonard Dugan
https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-13159482790260_2271_47557072


Archie Moore on heavyweights:

"You're fightin' heavyweights, don't forget you're hittin' a stationary target. The fellas I fought, you can't hardly hit 'em. Some of 'em you can't hardly hit with a handful of rice—fellas like Holman Williams, like the Cocoa Kid—'less you plan your punches.

"Fight heavyweights, I don't have any trouble hittin' 'em. Take Bob Baker. They say he was to be one of the best young heavyweights—boxin' style. Time I got through with him he was a bloated bloody mess. I didn't have no trouble hittin' Nino Valdes and I weighed 196 then. Marciano isn't goin' to be any trouble for me.... Course, all the time you got to exercise a certain amount of caution you're in there with a puncher like that"

Moore was right about everything except that Marciano wasn't going to be any problem, since Marciano turned out to be the toughest fighter he would ever fight at heavyweight. Moore assumed Marciano was easy to hit, but he wasn't and assumed Marciano wasn't an accurate puncher, but he was.

 

Hi mate, after all that palaver can you actually tell me how Marciano is going to beat Tyson ?

I won't bother responding to all the points you raised as they are of the straw man - ignore the question and type a lot of non factual opinion type posts. The fighters you mention as big men are basically bums.

Please tell me by what method the Rock is going to beat Mike Tyson. Rocky has a 67 inch reach and weighed around 188 pounds. He was a fighter who could only fight one way, that is coming forward in a low crouch attacking.

Its a massive ask for Marciano to overcome all the disadvantages he would face and somehow beat Tyson. Whatever you say about Iron Mike if he was able to consistently land on an opponent then he would win. I cant see him failing to land on Marciano.

Cheers.

 

I know I shouldnt bother and I also know its off topic but here goes anyway.

One last question for you Jacko, how can you say that the first incarnation of George Foreman had anything at all in common with Archie Moore as a fighter as far as fighting Marciano.

Moore was a 39 year old former light heavyweight counter puncher with great stamina who fought in a completely relaxed manner out of a semi crouch, utilising a shell type guard while Foreman was a six ft three inch 220 pound fighter who used a low guard, no head movement and a thudding jab and who fought " angry ".

Cheers.

 

And by the same token maybe Marciano was only 5'9". Or was he the only fighter ever measured truthfully?

Look, anyone can make up their own measurements to suit their own arguments.

Also, plenty of dudes go out in heeled shoes and lifts so these out in public shots need to be taken with a large chunk of salt.

A more telling problem for Marciano is that in addition to being a slow midget he was exceedingly stumpy to boot. Meanwhile (speedier) guys like Lamon Brewster had a 77" reach, Povetkin 75", Holy 78", Cooper 78 1/2"... while lil Marciano was Rudy-esque 67".

 

Smooth?

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