Do you have Jack Johnson in your top 5 HWs of all time?

You should do an update vid on your top 20 heavyweights, I remember last time he wasn't even in your top 6

 

Johnson probably doesn't even make top 50:

1. Anthony Joshua
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Tyson Fury from the Pianeta fight
4. Wladimir Klitschko from the Joshua fight
5. Tyson Fury from the Klitschko fight
6. Wladimir Klitschko from the Fury fight
7. Wladimir Klitschko from the Steward era
8. Old Vitali Klitschko
9. Vitali Klitschko the day after Lewis retired
10. Old Lennox Lewis when he beat Vitali

 

The devil is in the detail with this one.

In October of 1902 Jack Johnson defeated George Gardner, which seems to be the point from which he was recognized as a serious player in the heavyweight division.

In April of 1915 he lost his title to Jess Willard, which ended a thirteen year run at world level.

During this period he had about fifty fights, with his only loss being the controversial decision against Marvin Hart.

During this period he was consistently fighting men who were contenders, whatever you think of the era.

I suspect that if there had been Ring Rankings throughout Johnson's career, the stats would look very impressive.

 

Good vids wherever he places the subjects.

 

Hard to put him in the top 5 honestly because fighters from his era all have the same problem , a lack of visual evidence. Could he beat many in the top ten?, absolutely.

 

It'd be interesting to try with Donnelon's rankings, I know Mendoza did it with his reign, but that's only part of the story

 

Sure, all top 5 heavyweights were Ko'd by men under 180 pounds, out boxed according to primary sources by a super middle weight another, and floored by another supper middle weight. Mix in a few more losses and draws, with some wins where he struggled...

Johnson's best win is likely Tommy Burns, all 5'7 1/2 of him, who weighed an estimated 168 pounds, with sources like a book on him ( Tommy Burns: Canada's Unknown World Heavyweight Champion ) , and the premier historian on early black prizefighters saying he had jaundice, noting he looked yellow.

Johnson's title reign was very weak and did not include the names Langford, McVey, Jeannette, or Smith on them. There is some controversy in terms of what would have happened if Flynn wasn't DQ'd, and the films show him very even with Moran.

A top 5 most famous heavyweight champion? I might go with that.

Top 5 on merit or head to head, not a chance.

 

That list was actually compiled through a poll on this website.

Always wanted to do a version with my list. Perhaps one day.

 

He's in quite a few films. Burns, Ketchel, Jeffries, Flynn, Moran, and Willard for sure. Six opponents, likely over 60 minutes of footage. Enough to judge.

There's probably more film of him that I listed. I read he's on film in a fight that took place in a bull ring after losing to Willard. Battling Jim Johnson fans, keep your fingers crossed, as I read Johnson vs. Johnson was filmed in France. Perhaps Klompton, if he wants to can confirm all films on Johnson. There might be film of his return fights in Cuba as well.

 

Burns did not have Jaundice ,he himself said he was trained to the minute and he gave public workouts up to two days before the fight. Kevin Smith did not say Burns had jaundice in fact he came on this forum and publicly berated you for suggesting he said it! Dan McCaffrey who wrote that garbage book about Burns didn't even know who Burns was until the mid seventies and he is a Canadian himself! His book is absolutely crammed with inaccuracies such as ;
Burns defended his title against a Native American
Burns broke Johnson's ribs[Johnson went for a swim directly after the fight].
Burns defended against a SouthAfrican Jew[Jewey Smith [a Church Of England Englishman born in Spitalfields London who never set foot in South Africa .
The book received an absolutely stinking review on Amazon,and I am proud to say I gave it!

This is taken from the promo blurb of the book on Amazon.

"In an era of pervasive racism, Tommy Burns had the courage to embrace bouts with African-Americans, including the great Jack Johnson. When Johnson won, the American South exploded with racial violence and Burns' reputation was widely smeared"

This simply did not happen!




Flynn did not win a round against Johnson in either of their fights.It was the quoted opinion of the referee in their second fight that Flynn, knowing he was going to be knocked out, took the easy way out by inccesantly fouling until the ref had no choice but to disqualify him.Your post is absolutely diabolical,even by your miserable standards!

 

How did that issue end up? I remember somebody show up in the thread saying that they were related to Smith, but I don't think much more came of it.

 

Jewey Smith is well documented.
Name: Jewey Smith
Birth Name: Joseph Smith
Born: 1884-01-07
Birthplace: Spitalfields, London, United Kingdom
Hometown: Aldgate, London, United Kingdom

 

So was the person who said she was related to Smith lying, or an alt, or something?

 

I've no idea.

 

Hasn't it been suggested that Jewrey Smith's South African title was an amateur one?

I don't know if that's true.