Victor Conte:”What Billy Joe Saunders took is ten fold more powerful than what Canelo took”

It was you who raised the topic of nasal decongestants - I, like UKAD, WADA and BBBofC do not give a monkeys how he took it. It makes no difference whether it was in that or not, if it makes you happy to think you've found some big flaw in what's been said, go ahead - but BJS could have been pouring it on his breakfast cereal and so long as he was not using it in-competition, he is not breaking any rules of the governing bodies. The issues arise with VADA (voluntarily contracted for the fight), who, as I understand it, consider you in-competition whilst enrolled in the program.

 

VADA are not involved out of competition, so of course they don't. They have no authority to ban or not ban it.

 

I really tried to be patient with you, but you've gone full ****** and you're trying to go back on what you've said.

"VADA doesn't ban both. VADA only bans Oxilofrine IN-COMPETITION, just like all the others."

Show me a source where Oxilofrine is not prohibited out of competition. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just want to see a FACTUAL source. Stop backtracking and provide a VADA source.

And big surprise you couldn't find ONE ****ing brand of nasal decongestant that has Oxilofrine. So you've admitted you're a liar and you're talking out of your ass. Common my ass.

 

I mean your dumbass argument is basically saying "VADA doesn't ban it out of competition" because they are not involved out of competition, then why the **** would BJS test positive dummy lmao, they're not in competition are they? VADA never allows it regardless if you're tested on fight night(in competition), or MONTHS prior(out of competition).

You have to be a huge BJS bandwagoner to even insinuate that bull**** you just said. You don't care that BJS made some bull**** about "nasal decongestants" being the reason why he tested positive because you're a nuthugger. That's the only reason. You're also a liar and you talk out of your ass since you claimed it was common but couldn't find it.

 

Can't believe I've wasted as long replying to such a fool. I didn't raise the topic of nasal decongestant's - you did. I mentioned dietary supplements. If it is not common, so be it - I don't care, it makes absolutely no difference at all.

As for VADA, here is what Eddie Hearn had to say on the whole thing:

This content is protected

 

Dude GTFO I'm not watching a 14 minute video.

Here is what we're arguing about.

If Oxilofrine or Clenbuterol is worse.

Your argument is Clenbuterol is banned at all times for WADA and Oxilofrine isn't. That's not a good argument to prove that Clenbuterol ALONE is a way worse PED since it is known as a masking agent. Also VADA bans Oxilofrine at ALL TIMES. If VADA randomly tests a fighter and they don't have a contract signed, they will still FAILED a test. Am I right or am I wrong?

The other argument is if Oxilofrine is a nasal decongestant.

"It is common in nasal decongestants also, yes."

Then you told me to GOOGLE it after I told you to provide sources.

You clearly couldn't.

Of course you don't care if it's not a nasal decongestant and SAUNDERS is a lying, you're a fanboy. It's obvious.

 

Far from it. I think any sort of advantage should be punished, I think they should all be subject to Olympic style blood testing year-round with life bans for any serious offender. But the point I'm making is that he hasn't broke any regulatory rules.

VADA are contracted to test for the duration of camp and for the fight, which they determine to be in-competition. Therein lies the discrepancy. What he has done is not banned out of competition, by anyone. Whether it should be or not is another matter, but the UK authorities have already confirmed he won't be punished because, as far as they are concerned, he has not failed any drugs test. Because the VADA test is irrelevant, as far as their interpretation is concerned.

 

You can sign up for random VADA testing even when you don't have a fight signed. So if you have Oxilofrine would you fail or pass a VADA test?

Also like I said, as far as punishment I never once claimed VADA had the authority to punish him. I'm just saying in an ideal world he would be banned for at least 6 months.

Look, maybe BJS is innocent and it really was NASAL DECONGESTANT, but that's what I want to get to the bottom of. That's my main argument. How many times do I need to clarify that?

 

It sounds like a pretty solid argument, fool-proof, actually. One cannot be used, at all, at any time, because it is considered either too dangerous to you or/and to your opponent. One you can use on your own time. That seems pretty clear cut to me.

Why would VADA be testing a fighter if they don't have a signed contract? They are the Voluntary Anti Doping Agency, it's in the name.

 

I’m not getting into your debate with LordS, however, it’s a interesting point you have raised. Does the nasal decongestant BJS claims to have used actually have the substance in question??

How can we find out?

Ellerbe is claiming that bjs is so stupid he just messed up and if that’s true that is seriously a bonehead move on BJSs part. At least Canelo had the horse meat idea worked out accurately before he claimed he had a messed up cow.

Who can research this for us??

I know just the member,

Would HerolGee come to the thread, paging pharmacist HerolGee!!

Or anyone that really knows?

 

Only someone who has limited thinking would assume it's "fool-proof". Like I said, clenbuterol is a known "masking agent", I'd bet that masking agents that have NO BENEFITS at all are banned at all times with no exceptions even if they have 0 benefits. The argument is if Clenbuterol has more benefits alone than Oxilofrine. But then again, you do seem limited, so I'm not surprised you assume that.

As for VADA testing fighters, if a fighter enrolls in a yearly drug testing program with VADA, why would it be relevant if they have a fight signed or not. How is it "random testing", if there is no testing after? Let me give you a hypothetical:

Saunders enrolls in VADA yearly random testing. He finishes a fight in Jan. During Feb-March he has no fight signed, are you saying VADA would not sign him during Feb-March? It's not really "random testing then", wouldn't it give fighters opportunities to cycle? Isn't the whole point of RANDOM testing to prevent that?

 

Of course you can, but BJS is not. He is signed up to be tested for the fight. Whether it would be a fail if you were tested in-between fights/camps, I don't know - but I don't know, again, what difference that would make?

Let's assume that, yes, testing positive for the substance in year-round VADA testing between fights was a 'fail'. What would be the sum-game? It's informative only. It is only relevant to a commission, governing body or fight if you agree to it in the contract, which makes it the same as the others.

If you were signed up for year-round VADA testing between fights and tested positive for clen, on the other hand, you would still be banned - because the governing bodies would prohibit its use at that time also.

Do you see the point I'm driving at here?

 

I was actually shocked about this. I didn't think it was true @nervousxtian pointed it out and I was debating him. But I couldn't find a source. If anything I started off defending BJS, but it looks real bad.

Then we have assholes like @LordSouness just completely talking out of his ass telling me it's "common" then telling me to "GOOGLE IT" lmao cause he couldn't find it. He tried it play it off like it was an easy google find.

 

I don't get your point. Yes, we already established that Clen is always banned while Oxilofrine is only banned in-competition for WADA and always banned for VADA.

 

Yet they banned Meldoniumn and used that as a segway to suspend Russian athletes.