Duran - Leonard rematch timeline

August 1980,,,is after he moved to welterweight

 

I Asked a boss I once had what's the difference between a reason and an excuse, he said when you say it, it's an excuse, When I say it, it's a reason. When Leonard fought Duran in Montreal ,, this was the last time he was at a physical and mental best, and Leonard lost. Duran never looked that good again. When he lost to Wilfred and Hearns he was no where near that best either, two to three divisions from his prime best . Tyson and Duran had one thing in common, when you give a poor street kid millions it's sometimes a greater challenge than poverty. The difference though is Duran was so great he regrouped and won titles again,,,and, blew fortunes again.I said it before, the last time anyone really saw the beast of Panama was in Montreal, and that fighter was one of the top pound for pound fighters of all time. Greater than Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Benitez,Manny, Floyd ,Chavez and so on.

 

So you're putting up a quote where Arcel DIRECTLY mentions that Duran got OVER 170 pounds AND he even was snacking at midnight WHILE in training. This sounds like an ideal camp to you? This sounds like he didn't come to camp out of shape? It sounds like the exact opposite of what you're trying to claim. Further, you also tried to claim based on your research, that Duran didn't balloon to 20 pounds over his fighting weight. Yet here, a quote you're trying to use to support your theory (which actually does the opposite), Arcel specifically mentions Duran gaining more than 20 pounds. So why then claim you couldn't find anything about him coming in 20 pounds heavier?

I'm still waiting for an answer though bud. You still didn't answer the question I've posed 2 times now. Do fighters hide an injury or issue in camp until it comes out after a fight? Is this not a common occurrence? If so, which I think you know it is, then why put any value into prefight comments?

Next, you also posted an article giving a reason why they might have misrepresented their role in things. You posted interviews from Arcel and Brown where they specifically mention coming up with excuses as to almost save Duran's life from retribution. So if they were that concerned about his life, and how pissed off people would be for Duran quitting... You don't think they'd fudge the truth a bit to take any possible blame or appearance of blame from them? Do you think it was in their best interest to say... yeah he came in out of shape... I wanted to postpone the fight but didn't... I knew he wasn't in as good of shape as he was before, but he simply wasn't as prepared. Do you expect them to say that if they were willing to lie because of fear? Seems like they would do no such thing don't you agree?

 

Went back and looked, you did say 20 or so like below:

Now, the problem here is, for the first fight he weight 145.5, and then if we take Arcel's word as true and even at the best case scenario for you (171, since he said over 170), that would still place his weight gain at slightly over 25 pounds. That is in the best case, as we start to creep up to what over 170 means... we could get very close to the 35 you are calling bs on.

For the third time you avoided the question. So I'll take it as a concession that pre-fight talk is pretty much useless, and you concede that people hide issues in training camps all the time that come out after a win or loss. So relying on that pre fight info as you were, is basically useless.

 

reason or excuse, it is meant to take away from the guy who beat him. Duran looked great against Barkley. He looked great when he had a guy fighting his fight. He was a frontrunner in many ways. Which still marks greatness, however what did Teddy Atlas say about coming back and winning is what marks greatness, which I think was a little bit idiotic.

 

I'll answer for him. Duran made 1.5 million in their first fight, his biggest payday up to that point. He has 8 million burning a whole in his wallet for the rematch. He very well knew it was going to happen and early on. No way in hell Duran and Arcel are going to turn down 8 mil. Think about it that is 5 folds more .. The man just wanted to enjoy life and party, maybe he was just not motivated to be 100% properly prepared for this one .. Why so hard for people to see this? This was the biggest fight of his carrier, this and their first, and SRL was easily his best comp up to this point .. He should have gone to the gym instead of the party.. He just blew it. People talk about well he always ballooned up after fights.. If you have ever boxed or wrestled before competitively, then you know how extremely hard on the body it is to get back down that much weight and it catches up with everyone eventually the older you get. And especially him facing a guy like SRL, He just can't afford to do this anymore… Yes I could be wrong in my opinion here but I am trying to say what I think what was going on in Duran's mind at the time..

 

Ya I never said this .. My post has absolutely nothing to with this

 

Read my posts .. They are as clear as day .. In line with Robert U take on it , morlocks, etc .. We disagree here .. that is fine. we disagree a lot .. that is fine .. we go at it on Mayweather jnr, you thinking the athletes today are superior, etc .. we disagree on almost everything .. that is fine .. we see things differently ,, that is fine … for me it's just getting kinda old .. no disrespect .. have a great day

 

I never said every time, or all the time, I simply said it's a common occurrence. The issue is, I didn't take a logical leap at all since I'm not using pre-fight commentary to support my assertions. That is exactly what you're doing though, and trying to support your conclusion with prefight commentary from various people. That is the main crux of the discussion, and why I even commented that I'm not sure why you're using this line of logic in the first place. Seems rather flimsy to me. Then you further exacerbate the issue by claiming Duran didn't need to lose as much weight as what is claimed, and it was likely around 20 pounds, but anything talk of 30/35 or more is BS. Then post an article from Arcel himself stating Duran got about 170 and time was spent getting him down. He claims they had enough time to get him down, but clearly states he struggled with his weight coming into camp, and best case scenario, only had to lose 25 pounds, but it could've been 30 or more (came to camp at 176), which you previously assert was BS. So my only contention is using this type of proof to support your theory doesn't make much sense to me. That is what I said, and been saying big kev.